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Thread: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

  1. #531
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    It's funny because your snide lmgtfy.com link ends up with...

    The first link discussing the benefits of children living with their married biological mother and father... which wouldn't be the case in a gay marriage.
    No, it also discusses the differences between children living in two parent homes where one was not the biological parent and children in single parent homes

    The second link is the Union of Catholic Bishops... what do you suppose their stance is?
    This is an ad hom argument, which is a fallacy

    The third promoted the benefits of children living wit their biological parents (kids who grow up with their married biological parents have a higher rate of religiosity in adulthood, dontcha know)
    This report also discusses the differences between children living in two parent homes where one was not the biological parent and children in single parent homes

    The fourth article is a WaPo article asking whether we are overestimating the benefit of marriage to children
    So one out of four

    The fifth in an article at the Atlantic that reports on the benefits of intact families (married biological parents)
    You are misdefining the word "intact" to include "biological" when the article does not say that.

    At what point does this start being a point in your favor? Link six and seven.. hmm.. nope. More talk about intact families.

    I thought you had a chance with the 8th link but that Princeton site only said that there is no empirical evidence for the benefits of gay marriage for children...
    Even if all of the links were for children raised by both biological parents, other studies have shown that the children of same sex married couples do just as well as those raised by both biological parents.

    And then there are the links that come up if you click on the link at the bottom of the page
    https://www.google.com/search?newwin...w=1280&bih=631
    Last edited by sangha; 07-05-15 at 07:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #532
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Please provide your definition of moral imperative and explain why gay marriage is and Olympic aspiration is not a "moral imperative".
    Moral is defined as "concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character."

    Being an olympic athlete has to do with athletic performance, which has nothing to do with right and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator
    Nope, it wasn't considered a legal right until the SCOTUS decision, and there was nothing stopping a gay couple from entering into long term committed relationships.
    It was a right available to heterosexual couples, who went to the court house, got a marriage license, and got married.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator
    As I already said, the only valid argument for gay marriage is the SS benefits. A gay couple living together without marriage would qualify for fewer social security benefits than if they were married. Therefore, with gay marriage comes an increase in SS payouts.
    Wrong again, read Kennedy's opinion. Children are stigmatized is their parents relationship is considered second class. Partners were denied visitation rights in hospitals because they were "not family". You may not be able to apply for group health ins. for a gay partner. THere were many problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator
    Right, but where does it say that each person is limited to one marriage?
    State law has already stated that, so it is already covered. The supreme court did not have to say it, it was already done.

  3. #533
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, it also discusses the differences between children living in two parent homes where one was not the biological parent and children in single parent homes
    Having just read it again, care to quote where it talks about such arrangements favorably? I see that children in a family where the father is not their biological father are 33% more likely to suffer abuse..

    This is an ad hom argument, which is a fallacy
    Is it? Are you sure you sare using that term correctly? What is the Catholic stance on Gay Marriage? I bet you know. BUt if you think that article suports your argument any better then the others do feel free to quote it.

    This report also discusses the differences between children living in two parent homes where one was not the biological parent and children in single parent homes
    Where?

    So one out of four
    No, you are still batting 000.

    You are misdefining the word "intact" to include "biological" when the article does not say that.
    So you don't think intact families include biological families? I would argue that the vast majority in the study were biological families and no gay families. The study in question measures the effect of intact families on young adults. Since the study is tracking people born in the 80s and 90s from intact families it is impossible that any of them are the product of a gay marriage.

    Even if all of the links were for children raised by both biological parents, other studies have shown that the children of same sex married couples do just as well as those raised by both biological parents.
    You are not so awesome at citing them if they are out there.

    And then there are the links that come up if you click on the link at the bottom of the page
    https://www.google.com/search?newwin...w=1280&bih=631
    Most of those fall into two categories: 1) Problems solved by a legal power of attorney and 2) Protection from government taxation

    So, I have already said that Social Security taxes is one thing in favor of gay marriage argument, and as a conservative I would rather have lower taxes across the board rather than tax shelters.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  4. #534
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    Moral is defined as "concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character."

    Being an olympic athlete has to do with athletic performance, which has nothing to do with right and wrong.
    You defined moral, not moral imperative.

    It was a right available to heterosexual couples, who went to the court house, got a marriage license, and got married.
    That wasn't a right. By definition a government license can be refused so it isn't a right.

    Wrong again, read Kennedy's opinion. Children are stigmatized is their parents relationship is considered second class. Partners were denied visitation rights in hospitals because they were "not family". You may not be able to apply for group health ins. for a gay partner. THere were many problems.
    The "stigmatizing" nature of gay marriage isn't changed by the SCOTUS decision, sorry to break it to Justice Kennedy.

    The hospital visitation argument has always been the weakest arguments for gay marriage. You can solve that issue any number of ways without ever addressing marriage. There is no national law blocking a gay person from their partner's hospital bedside.

    The health insurance issue

    State law has already stated that, so it is already covered. The supreme court did not have to say it, it was already done.
    In case you missed it, the SCOTUS ruling was against the states ability to define marriage. Trying to argue from the states definitions of marriage at this point is crazy. The SCOTUS stripped them of the ability.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  5. #535
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There is a great deal of research that has been done showing how the children of married parents are better off than the children of unmarried parents. You may be the only person I know who is not aware of this info.

    Benefits
    Is there anything showing that the children of married parents are better off than the children of cohabiting parents? Anything showing that a legal piece of paper improves the condition of children?
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Having just read it again, care to quote where it talks about such arrangements favorably? I see that children in a family where the father is not their biological father are 33% more likely to suffer abuse..



    Is it? Are you sure you sare using that term correctly? What is the Catholic stance on Gay Marriage? I bet you know. BUt if you think that article suports your argument any better then the others do feel free to quote it.



    Where?



    No, you are still batting 000.



    So you don't think intact families include biological families? I would argue that the vast majority in the study were biological families and no gay families. The study in question measures the effect of intact families on young adults. Since the study is tracking people born in the 80s and 90s from intact families it is impossible that any of them are the product of a gay marriage.



    You are not so awesome at citing them if they are out there.



    Most of those fall into two categories: 1) Problems solved by a legal power of attorney and 2) Protection from government taxation

    So, I have already said that Social Security taxes is one thing in favor of gay marriage argument, and as a conservative I would rather have lower taxes across the board rather than tax shelters.
    You are arguing a straw man. Pointing out problems with one form of marriage (ie where one parent is not the biological parent) does not, in any way, diminish the fact that marriage overall provides stability and security for the overwhelming majjority of the children in homes led by a married couple.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #537
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Is there anything showing that the children of married parents are better off than the children of cohabiting parents? Anything showing that a legal piece of paper improves the condition of children?
    Overview of Federal Benefits Granted to Married Couples | Resources | Human Rights Campaign
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #538
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are arguing a straw man. Pointing out problems with one form of marriage (ie where one parent is not the biological parent) does not, in any way, diminish the fact that marriage overall provides stability and security for the overwhelming majjority of the children in homes led by a married couple.
    Huh, I would have bet that you knew the definition of "straw man".. I would have lost.

    Anyway, you keep making an assertion that gay marriage is good for kids but you can't seem to provide evidence of anything other than the benefits of heterosexual marriage for children.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Huh, I would have bet that you knew the definition of "straw man".. I would have lost.

    Anyway, you keep making an assertion that gay marriage is good for kids but you can't seem to provide evidence of anything other than the benefits of heterosexual marriage for children.
    You're the one who is arguing a straw man about children who aren't being raised by their biological parents.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Is there anything showing that the children of married parents are better off than the children of cohabiting parents? Anything showing that a legal piece of paper improves the condition of children?
    Actually yes, there is evidence that such situations are worse for a child, mainly due to the fact that it is harder to tell which parents cohabiting are going to remain together and which are going to break up. Cohabiting is much more likely to end in a break up than marriage is to end in divorce, likely due to the fact that marriage does come with harsher penalties for at least one of the couple, costs them more money. But it also means that couples are more likely to work on their relationship, to keep it together, than if they are simply cohabiting and there is little to no legal ties between them.

    Cohabiting vs. marriage: does it affect children? - News - capecodtimes.com - Hyannis, MA

    It really isn't that stable, mainly because you have to figure if the parents were willing to commit to each other, give it their best try, most of them would simply get married, since the only thing that marriage does beyond cohabiting is create a legal kinship tie between the parents that in itself helps to "pressure" the couple to stay together, at least more than simply cohabiting. They are more likely to actually work on their relationship rather than give up on it at the first signs of trouble or when it gets a little rough.

    For Kids, Parental Cohabitation and Marriage Are Not Interchangeable | Family Studies
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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