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Thread: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

  1. #91
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    So freedom should be limited to the POSSIBILITY that these marriages may require assistance of Welfare or Social Security?
    You do know about social secutity spousal benefits, correct?
    "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    If conservatives and want join liberals in coming up with a means of preventing polygamy without demonizing gays, and without citing Biblical scripture (which supports polygamy), I'm totally on board.

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by akrunner88 View Post
    I'm a "bigot on the left" and I don't give a **** who you marry or how many people you marry as long as they are of legal age and carry human DNA. It's none of my business if one of you hicks from Mississippi want to marry your sister-aunt. It's the southern conservative states and Mormon strongholds (also conservative) where cousin ****ing, animal ****ing and polygamy occur the most anyway, so consider it a win for the south.
    Quote Originally Posted by akrunner88 View Post
    Well unlike gay marriage, which is supported by the majority of Americans and most Americans know a gay person, polygamy is a uniquely conservative Christian issue.

    Along with incestuous relationships, and relations between humans and animals, these are unique family set-ups that mostly apply to conservatives in the "car on the lawn states." Most Americans don't know on a personal level incestuous or polygamous couples, therefore the fight for their rights won't be in the forefront of American politics.

    Since it is a uniquely conservative issue and phenomenon, conservatives will have to chalk up the arguments for pro-incest and pro-polygamous marriages. You can start with the OT, which is a unique selling point among our nations most religious and might win you sympathy in the courts.
    You are both wrong. this is neither a Christian nor a southern/Utah thing. Poly, in all its many forms cross all the boundaries and is practiced by Christians, pagans, Jews, Muslims and atheists alike. It is across the country and around the world. It is one wife with her husbands and multiple wives and husbands as well as the stereotypical husband with his wives (which is polygyny not polygamy). Look at sites like Loving More, Polyamory Society, and alt.Polyamory to see that this is nowhere near limited to the FLDS nor the Muslims. Nor is it limited to, as I pointed out, men having multiple wives or any geographic region.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    that is discrimination I thought you hated discrimination.
    I don't see how removing restrictions equates to discrimination. Could you explain that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Farley View Post
    Now the Mormons can return to their everlasting covenant of polygamy, which was outlawed on the condition of Utah statehood.
    They never really left it, they just stopped applying for the legal status. I'm living in a poly family right now and we don't have legal status nor can the government come after us because of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Farley View Post
    Why not. How about marrying your horse?
    When your horse can communicate intelligently enough to give consent then yes you can marry your horse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    So that's what marriage is all about? It's just about a bunch of legal "benefits"? Then why was everyone so opposed to civil unions?
    Because the civil unions were not getting all the same benefits nor carry the same legal weight as marriage in most cases. While there was a small amount that would settle for nothing less than the word itself, most of the LBGT community would have been fine as long as the only difference was literally a word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Typically polygamous societies favor the wealthy. Imagine a society in which Donald Trump is married to 5000 models and Miss America contestants, while lower-income young men typically go unmarried.
    Again with the misconceptions. You are referring to polygyny and yes that is what the FLDS are practicing exclusively. Same for ME Muslims. But the rest of us polys are not so limited. We have our polyandry and polygamy families. I'm in one with a husband and two wives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    And maybe it oughtn't to be protected because it so often results in the abuse of women.
    Another misconception that results from the excessive media coverage of the FDLS. The question that needs to be asked is would a given man in a polygynous marriage abusing his wives also be abusing his one wife were he monogamous? And given the number of abusive monogamous men out there, it is a correlation/causation fallacy to associate polygamy to abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    While I do not argue against same sex marriage.....
    Not all homosexual individuals were "born that way". And, as many in the gay rights activism groups would agree, the federal government has no business attempting to determine whether one was "born that way" or if they "chose to be that way".
    With that said there are some of us who do feel that we were "born that way". Our natural instinct is towards poly. Others have a natural instinct towards monogamy, even if it is serial monogamy. And then there are those who can be in a monogamous relationship of a poly one and be fine with it.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Probably none.
    The point is this: The anti gay marriage folks said that gay marriage would lead to all sorts of things, including marrying animals, polygamy, you name it. Now that a trio has applied for a marriage license for a polygamous marriage, they're seeing their predictions come true. Never mind that said marriage license isn't approved, will never be approved, and that polygamy is not a civil rights issue.

    It's like this:

    See! See! Approve gay marriage, and polygamy is next! Told you so, na na na na na!
    Of course the argument was the allowing interracial marriage was leading to SSM, poly and bestiality. So we're just continuing along the older track
    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I care. One reason: I don't know that we can afford it.

    What's this going to do to welfare? How do you calculate survivor benefits for SS?

    At this point there are just so many unanswered questions, isn't it foolish not to at least care about the issue?
    That didn't truly answer the question. You addressed legal complications based upon current law structure, an issue that most of the poly community wants to see addressed before we push for legal acceptance. Note I said most.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    If anyone wants to get married they should- be it man, woman, multiples, plants or beasts. I dont see how its anyone's business but themselves.
    When you talk about the type of marriage that polys and gays have been getting until now, i.e. social/religious and not legal ones, then I agree with you. But a legal marriage is fully within the purview of the government since it is about their recognition of the marriage for the legal benefits and rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    As far as I am aware, no mainstream Christian group has ever advocated polygamy or tolerated it among their followers. That's about 2,000 years of history we are talking about.

    Yes, polygamy did appear in OT times and perhaps we could have a Biblical exegete explain to us the development of Christian and Jewish doctrines on monogamy, in the light of OT history.
    Less actually. If you look at Pau'ls words in Romans, which is usually the basis for arguing monogamy, he would rather you not marry at all, and if you must and are a leader in the church then only one. Thus if you were not a leader, polygamy was still allowable. The church itself, based upon the no marriage preference, didn't get into controlling marriages until Pope Innocent III (well one of the Innocents) in about the 12th or 13th century, when they decreed for the first time that all marriages must go through them. So the conversion from poly allowed to poly forbidden was probably around the same time. But there isn't a full 2000 years worth of being against it.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    All of them!
    You need to back that up. Unless you are playing a word game, which I can come up with one possiblity to cover your statement, last I knew the Catholic Church along with many others do not allow polygamy in any form.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I am actually quite fine with that.
    I am sure you are.

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    How so?
    It is forcing people conscientiously objecting people to participate in financing ssm.

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    I don't see how removing restrictions equates to discrimination. Could you explain that?
    that isn't what was posted or what I responded to.

    The poster said that sure they can get married but the restrictions on benefits would still be in place.

    that is still discrimination. if they have a legal marriage then that would open their 2 or 3 or even 4th wife or husbands
    up to the same benefits.

    equal protection would then apply to their other marriages as well.

    this is where the proponents of gay marriage are going to get themselves in trouble by supporting one type of marriage but not all types of marriage then
    well they are just as bigoted and close minded and all the other horrible names that they called people that didn't support gay marriage.

    if you believe that marriage is between 1 man and 1 women your argument stays consistent even in polygamist marriages.

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    If conservatives and want join liberals in coming up with a means of preventing polygamy without demonizing gays, and without citing Biblical scripture (which supports polygamy), I'm totally on board.
    This is a common misconception. everywhere you see marriage or anything about marriage it is between 1 man and 1 women. the men that did have polygamist marriages also ran into many issues and other marital problems. when it came to leaders it was even worse. kids when they grew up were constantly fighting over the throne.

    if God did give a pass it was for one reason only procreation. war and disease took a huge toll on the population more so the men. by allowing a man to have more than one wife he could keep his line alive if his sons were called to war and killed. however every time you see the bible reference marriage more so in the new testament wife is always singular not plural.

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectStorm View Post
    Polygamous Montana trio applies for wedding license

    Can't see how this can be stopped.
    It shouldn't be stopped. Polygamy should be legal as long as all parties are adults.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by akrunner88 View Post
    polygamy is a uniquely conservative Christian issue. .
    Wut? Polygamy is embraced by and practiced by most Muslim religions as well. If you stepped up from your mother's basement once in a while, you would possibly know this.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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