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Thread: California Law Requires Vaccinations to Attend School.

  1. #31
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    Re: California Law Requires Vaccinations to Attend School.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    In reference to childhood disease if you catch one, let it run it's course, and recover from it, your body develops antibodies which typically prevent you from getting that particular disease again. I have been exposed to vectors of childhood diseases several times over my life and never suffered again.

    BTW, what exactly do you think happens when you get vaccinated as a child? Have you ever been re-vaccinated for those same childhood diseases in your lifetime? Have you ever caught any of the childhood diseases you were exposed to again? Perhaps if I said "acquired immunity" you'd accept it then?

    As for your confusion about a choice between blood test or presumption of intoxication, I've already explained it. If you remain confused, do your own research on the subject.
    Immunity can wear off. Sorry, I assumed you were aware of this.

  2. #32
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    Re: California Law Requires Vaccinations to Attend School.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Immunity can wear off. Sorry, I assumed you were aware of this.
    I am aware of it. However, what's that got to do with the price of rice in China? I could tell you that I caught a cold once when I was a little child, stopped participating in annual Flu shots for over 30 years ago, and despite constant exposure have never caught a cold again after the first experience. That's mere anecdotal information, because as you say immunity can wear off. Still, most people retain their immunities after exposure to most childhood disease, and the few that don't can re-vaccinate if they so choose.

    I am not personally opposed to being vaccinated. But in the case of these families, why must the law require vaccination or home schooling, but prohibit at least private schooling without vaccination so that if they want they can form a community school and send their kids to one? After all, they still have to pay taxes used for public schools, and must work to do so, preventing any real choice about home schooling under such a law.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 07-01-15 at 08:31 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  3. #33
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    Re: California Law Requires Vaccinations to Attend School.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    "Gov. Jerry Brown on Tuesday signed a hotly contested California bill to impose one of the strictest school vaccination laws in the country in the wake of an outbreak of measles at Disneyland late last year.

    California now joins West Virginia and Mississippi as the only states without a personal-belief exemption for vaccines. Medical exemptions will still be available for children with serious health issues. When considering exemptions, doctors may take family medical history into account.

    Effective the 2016-17 school year, children whose parents refuse vaccination and are not granted a medical exemption must be homeschooled. School-age children who currently claim a personal-belief exemption will need to get fully vaccinated by kindergarten and seventh grade, the state's two vaccine checkpoints. The law applies to both public and private schools, as well as daycare centers."

    What's next for California's contentious vaccine law

    So, in order to attend either public or private school in California, all children who don't have a specific medical exemption must now be fully vaccinated against all childhood disease.

    On the surface this seems to be a reasonable public safety measure designed to "protect the children." However, IMO it just one more step down the road of Nanny-State policies designed to violate individual liberty in the name of public security.

    My argument isn't that vaccinations are inherently bad, although as with any pharmaceutical product there is ALWAYS a risk of allergic reaction in a section of the population; nor do I buy into the position that vaccinations cause Autism.

    My argument is about the erosion of the right to be secure in one's physical person from seizure and invasion. A person's physical body is their evidence of existential individuality; the basis from which all claims of individual liberty and inherent rights flow. Forcible invasion of a person's body for ANY reason is a direct assault on their liberty. History demonstrates that once you give a government that kind of power over the individual, it is a slippery slope leading to all sorts of horrors. (See Compulsory Sterilization, Nazi experimentation, etc.)

    It is one thing to lock someone up for a violent act for a period of incarceration, but quite another to require individuals to submit to blood tests, DNA extraction, or the forcible injection of substances into the body because other people think it will make THEM safer.

    In this case, voluntary vaccination serves to protect you and your children from infection. Compelling someone else to do so? I don't think your concerns trump their rights to choose not to.
    That's fine, but they risk the loss to attend a publically funded school. They can still pick a publically funded education via computer home schooling if they so choose.

  4. #34
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    Re: California Law Requires Vaccinations to Attend School.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yes, we pay money to educate morons. We don't pay money to help infants continue ****ting in their pants into adulthood.

    And we don't pay money so that idiots can endanger their own children, and the children of others, with their moronic decision. We do have a method for reducing the likelihood of outbreaks: making unvaccinated children be homeschooled!
    I am at a lost to understand why you would think that. Our government continues to subsidize people who are unable or unwilling to support themselves well into adulthood through old age. We have numerous programs to subsidize poor parents.

    I realize that you are just trying to direct angry words against those parents who don't believe in vaccinations but that is no reason to make completely absurd statements. Besides, you are making a completely unfounded assumption that home schooled children are unvaccinated, or even tend to be.

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    Re: California Law Requires Vaccinations to Attend School.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I am aware of it. However, what's that got to do with the price of rice in China? I could tell you that I caught a cold once when I was a little child, stopped participating in annual Flu shots for over 30 years ago, and despite constant exposure have never caught a cold again after the first experience. That's mere anecdotal information, because as you say immunity can wear off. Still, most people retain their immunities after exposure to most childhood disease, and the few that don't can re-vaccinate if they so choose.

    I am not personally opposed to being vaccinated. But in the case of these families, why must the law require vaccination or home schooling, but prohibit at least private schooling without vaccination so that if they want they can form a community school and send their kids to one? After all, they still have to pay taxes used for public schools, and must work to do so, preventing any real choice about home schooling under such a law.
    Certain choices threaten the public and sometimes the government steps in to restrict such a choice.

    Collecting unvaccinated children together in a private school just for unvaccinated children actually makes things worse. For those children.

    I guess the ultimate question that comes up is how much are you allowed to endanger your child? It's one thing if you were making this decision to put yourself at risk, but a child who has no choice in the matter?

  6. #36
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    Re: California Law Requires Vaccinations to Attend School.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    I am at a lost to understand why you would think that. Our government continues to subsidize people who are unable or unwilling to support themselves well into adulthood through old age. We have numerous programs to subsidize poor parents.

    I realize that you are just trying to direct angry words against those parents who don't believe in vaccinations but that is no reason to make completely absurd statements. Besides, you are making a completely unfounded assumption that home schooled children are unvaccinated, or even tend to be.

    Uhh, what? I didn't assume homeschooled children were usually unvaccinated. Rather, unvaccinated children would be homeschooled. Because of the law this thread is about?

    The morons are the parents who choose not to vaccinate their children, not the parents who choose homeschooling. While the former end up in the latter group as a side effect, only the first group is the morons. Hope this helps. I think you are just so eager to attack a pro-vaccination person you just didn't read very carefully. I'm going to skip right past your implication that poor parents are morons, because that's not even worth it.

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    Re: California Law Requires Vaccinations to Attend School.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    "Gov. Jerry Brown on Tuesday signed a hotly contested California bill to impose one of the strictest school vaccination laws in the country in the wake of an outbreak of measles at Disneyland late last year.

    California now joins West Virginia and Mississippi as the only states without a personal-belief exemption for vaccines. Medical exemptions will still be available for children with serious health issues. When considering exemptions, doctors may take family medical history into account.

    Effective the 2016-17 school year, children whose parents refuse vaccination and are not granted a medical exemption must be homeschooled. School-age children who currently claim a personal-belief exemption will need to get fully vaccinated by kindergarten and seventh grade, the state's two vaccine checkpoints. The law applies to both public and private schools, as well as daycare centers."

    What's next for California's contentious vaccine law

    So, in order to attend either public or private school in California, all children who don't have a specific medical exemption must now be fully vaccinated against all childhood disease.

    On the surface this seems to be a reasonable public safety measure designed to "protect the children." However, IMO it just one more step down the road of Nanny-State policies designed to violate individual liberty in the name of public security.

    My argument isn't that vaccinations are inherently bad, although as with any pharmaceutical product there is ALWAYS a risk of allergic reaction in a section of the population; nor do I buy into the position that vaccinations cause Autism.

    My argument is about the erosion of the right to be secure in one's physical person from seizure and invasion. A person's physical body is their evidence of existential individuality; the basis from which all claims of individual liberty and inherent rights flow. Forcible invasion of a person's body for ANY reason is a direct assault on their liberty. History demonstrates that once you give a government that kind of power over the individual, it is a slippery slope leading to all sorts of horrors. (See Compulsory Sterilization, Nazi experimentation, etc.)

    It is one thing to lock someone up for a violent act for a period of incarceration, but quite another to require individuals to submit to blood tests, DNA extraction, or the forcible injection of substances into the body because other people think it will make THEM safer.

    In this case, voluntary vaccination serves to protect you and your children from infection. Compelling someone else to do so? I don't think your concerns trump their rights to choose not to.
    I used to think we had rights too.....it seems we're way behind the times.... not even lefties believe in our rights anymore.

  8. #38
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    Re: California Law Requires Vaccinations to Attend School.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Uhh, what? I didn't assume homeschooled children were usually unvaccinated. Rather, unvaccinated children would be homeschooled. Because of the law this thread is about?

    The morons are the parents who choose not to vaccinate their children, not the parents who choose homeschooling. While the former end up in the latter group as a side effect, only the first group is the morons. Hope this helps. I think you are just so eager to attack a pro-vaccination person you just didn't read very carefully. I'm going to skip right past your implication that poor parents are morons, because that's not even worth it.
    Wow! Went right over your head, I guess. So never mind.

  9. #39
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    Re: California Law Requires Vaccinations to Attend School.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    The difference is that a person in prison has (typically) caused a direct harm for which he is being punished. No one is supposed to be sent to prison when he hasn't done anything wrong, but MIGHT do something wrong.
    Ref your point on direct harm – what is your opinion on indirect harm – where you have inadvertently, due to lack of vaccination, yet you are infected, caused serious health injuries to person(s) or caused a person(s) to die, yet you are unaware of the harm you caused.
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

  10. #40
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    Re: California Law Requires Vaccinations to Attend School.

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Ref your point on direct harm what is your opinion on indirect harm where you have inadvertently, due to lack of vaccination, yet you are infected, caused serious health injuries to person(s) or caused a person(s) to die, yet you are unaware of the harm you caused.
    Short answer? That's what tort law is for. Sue them in the civil court system. (Long answer would involve inadvertent harm from intentional criminal acts.)
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 07-05-15 at 12:58 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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