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Thread: Supreme Court to Weigh Dispute Over Union Fees

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    Re: Supreme Court to Weigh Dispute Over Union Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Don't give me that crap. When you decide to look for work you go out with the intention of selling your labor for a salary.



    Employers are already forced into all sorts of things for unions. No thank you.
    When one looks for work, they want not only a wage, but a living wage and benefits, and they want to work somewhere with safe working conditions, which is what a union provides when it doesn't have inane restrictions placed upon it. Even if someone doesn't want to join a union for some bizarre reason, there are parts of a job that people don't like, and if someone doesn't want to pay union dues, they have the freedom to find another job. That's not a violation of freedom of association.
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

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    Re: Supreme Court to Weigh Dispute Over Union Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    His right to be indifferent is older, deeper and more legitimate than the union's right to exist.
    So in the fantasy world that you dwell in the right of one person is far more important than the collective rights of thousands of persons. Got it.

    And we wonder why this country is going to hell on a roller coaster when folks with that attitude are applying grease to the tracks.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Supreme Court to Weigh Dispute Over Union Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So in the fantasy world that you dwell in the right of one person is far more important than the collective rights of thousands of persons. Got it.

    And we wonder why this country is going to hell on a roller coaster when folks with that attitude are applying grease to the tracks.
    The backwards mind of statists is simply stunning. So basically the will of the individual is of lesser importance then the will of the group. Do you want to know why I hate collectivism? No? Well, I'm telling you anyway. I hate collectivism because not only does it amount of slavery, but the supporters of it have the balls to say it's liberty.

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    Re: Supreme Court to Weigh Dispute Over Union Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    When one looks for work, they want not only a wage, but a living wage and benefits, and they want to work somewhere with safe working conditions, which is what a union provides when it doesn't have inane restrictions placed upon it. Even if someone doesn't want to join a union for some bizarre reason, there are parts of a job that people don't like, and if someone doesn't want to pay union dues, they have the freedom to find another job. That's not a violation of freedom of association.
    So it's an inane restriction to concern yourself with the will of fellow workers? Unions are surely an odd bunch. They claim to stand for workers rights, but when it comes to a workers right to not join their union they protest loudly saying it's not right.

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    Re: Supreme Court to Weigh Dispute Over Union Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So in the fantasy world that you dwell in the right of one person is far more important than the collective rights of thousands of persons. Got it.

    And we wonder why this country is going to hell on a roller coaster when folks with that attitude are applying grease to the tracks.
    There is no such thing as "collective rights."
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Supreme Court to Weigh Dispute Over Union Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So it's an inane restriction to concern yourself with the will of fellow workers? Unions are surely an odd bunch. They claim to stand for workers rights, but when it comes to a workers right to not join their union they protest loudly saying it's not right.
    Not requiring workers to pay union dues in a unionized organization delegitimizes the entire concept of collective bargaining because unions negotiate on behalf off all workers. Allowing employees to not pay union dues is antithetical to the very idea of unionization and by extension, protection of workers' rights.
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

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    Re: Supreme Court to Weigh Dispute Over Union Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The purpose of a union is to represent a unified labor force when negotiating with management. A single worker has no power to negotiate, but the labor force does. It's a lot like hiring a lawyer to represent an individual or a group. The union has been, in effect, hired by the membership. If the membership doesn't like the agreement that the union negotiates, they don't have to accept it.

    So, if the union negotiates a 10% raise, and the membership approves of the result, the non member still gets the same raise. He should, therefore, chip in to pay for the representation that has benefited him. To do otherwise is to freeload from the payments of others.

    And, if you know of a union using dues money to donate to political causes, don't post it here. Report it to the labor board. It is illegal. Further, your statement about money being "fungible" is irrelevant. The only money the union has is either dues money, or money that has been donated by the members specifically for political purposes. They could, of course, use some of the political money for day to day operation of the union, which is dishonest, but they can't go the other way. It makes no sense.
    What makes no sense, is forcing people to participate in something they do not agree with or want to participate in, under threat of repercussion for non-participation.

    It ain't freeloading if the didn't ask for the help. If they get a raise or other benefit that they didn't request, as a result of other's actions, then that ain't freeloading either.

    Now, if they asked for the help and then refused to pay... that would be freeloading.

    To extend your logic, however, you should be able to call all the people that get Earned Income Tax Credit, and pay no taxes or get a refund that is larger than the taxes they paid in... freeloaders as well. They pay no dues, yet reap the benefit of other's labor.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Supreme Court to Weigh Dispute Over Union Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    Not requiring workers to pay union dues in a unionized organization delegitimizes the entire concept of collective bargaining because unions negotiate on behalf off all workers. Allowing employees to not pay union dues is antithetical to the very idea of unionization and by extension, protection of workers' rights.
    Then it would seem I have a fundamental problem with unionization. I don't approve of forced association and if your idea of protecting your rights involves forcing people into your group we have a fundamental disagreement that I see no way we can resolve.

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    Re: Supreme Court to Weigh Dispute Over Union Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    What makes no sense, is forcing people to participate in something they do not agree with or want to participate in, under threat of repercussion for non-participation.

    It ain't freeloading if the didn't ask for the help. If they get a raise or other benefit that they didn't request, as a result of other's actions, then that ain't freeloading either.

    Now, if they asked for the help and then refused to pay... that would be freeloading.

    To extend your logic, however, you should be able to call all the people that get Earned Income Tax Credit, and pay no taxes or get a refund that is larger than the taxes they paid in... freeloaders as well. They pay no dues, yet reap the benefit of other's labor.
    Yes, they're freeloaders just as surely as the non dues paying member who reaps the benefits of union membership is a free loader.
    Can't we just turn Congress off and then turn it back on again?



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    Re: Supreme Court to Weigh Dispute Over Union Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, they're freeloaders just as surely as the non dues paying member who reaps the benefits of union membership is a free loader.
    +1 for consistency.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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