• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Colorado Court Rules Use of Public Funds for Private Schools Is Unconstitutional

Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
2
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/30/u...private-schools-is-unconstitutional.html?_r=0
Religious schools should not be receiving public monies - will say many critics BUT
you can't just discriminate against religious institutions while funding secular private ones. It would be like having a plank that said you can't fund schools run by blacks. A school is a school is a school, even if it is run by people the state doesn't approve of.
 
Not real sure the Colorado Court got this wrong, according to their own Constitution the reasoning seems sound. What am I missing here?
 
Some Christian schools especially don't accept federal funds anyway, afraid that the state will take over. So not sure how the court would be wrong here
 
Yes, the constitution does not allow public money to be spent on religious schools. If there were schools that were specifically anti-religious (as opposed to merely teaching accurate science and history), they would likewise not be eligible for public money.
 
Am I the only one who noted that it was decided based on the Colorado Constitution and not the US Constitution? This has no relevance outside that state.
 
The ruling: https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...ation/Supreme_Court/Opinions/2013/13SC233.pdf

Appropriate section of the Colorado constitution: Article 9, Education :: Colorado Constitution :: Colorado Law :: US Law :: Justia

Section 7. Aid to private schools, churches, sectarian purpose, forbidden. Neither the general assembly, nor any county, city, town, township, school district or other public corporation, shall ever make any appropriation, or pay from any public fund or moneys whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectarian society, or for any sectarian purpose, or to help support or sustain any school, academy, seminary, college, university or other literary or scientific institution, controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatsoever; nor shall any grant or donation of land, money or other personal property, ever be made by the state, or any such public corporation to any church, or for any sectarian purpose.

Seems pretty clear cut to me.
 
A Colorado manner decided by a Colorado court. Good. That sacred 10th amendment in action. Apparently it cuts both for an against "religious liberty", if recent political debate is to be believed.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/30/us...onal.html?_r=0
Religious schools should not be receiving public monies - will say many critics BUT
you can't just discriminate against religious institutions while funding secular private ones. It would be like having a plank that said you can't fund schools run by blacks.
A school is a school is a school, even if it is run by people the state doesn't approve of.

It was the right choice to make for a number of reasons. Years ago private religious schools were being argued about over admission policies. Religious schools are allowed to refuse admission based on religion. Based on that, and maybe other considerations, courts ruled (or upheld, cant recall which) religious schools can refuse admission (which in most cases is discrimination), but they do not receive public funding. Douglas county tried to work around it by offering kids scholarships to public schools. The only thing the court really ruled on was since the existing state constitution had already stated that religious schools cannot receive funding from taxes, that this program cannot donate to them. Douglas county is arguing that they are giving the tax money to child, not the school, but court ruled that they cannot receive tax funds even through this indirect method.

Basically religious schools wanted special rights, and they got them. But as a result the state will not fund them.

This ruling didn't change anything. It clarified the existing ruling.


Text of Section 34:
Appropriations to Private Institutions Forbidden.

No appropriation shall be made for charitable, industrial, educational or benevolent purposes to any person, corporation or community not under the absolute control of the state, nor to any denominational or sectarian institution or association.

Text of Section 7:
Aid to Private Schools, Churches, Sectarian Purpose, Forbidden.

Neither the general assembly, nor any county, city, town, township, school district or other public corporation, shall ever make any appropriation, or pay from any public fund or moneys whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectarian society, or for any sectarian purpose, or to help support or sustain any school, academy, seminary, college, university or other literary or scientific institution, controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatsoever; nor shall any grant or donation of land, money or other personal property, ever be made by the state, or any such public corporation to any church, or for any sectarian purpose
 
Last edited:
I suppose the question now is whether Colorado's law that seems to prohibit vouchers only to religious organizations is Constitutional. The court has ruled that the use of vouchers for this purpose does not violate the Establishment Clause (so long as the voucher program meets certain criteria). So (assuming the criteria are met), the question becomes, what is the compelling government interest here, and is the law narrowly tailored to serve that interest.

With the Establishment Clause off the table, how is this law justified?
 
Not real sure the Colorado Court got this wrong, according to their own Constitution the reasoning seems sound. What am I missing here?

Education is now a state issue?
 
Good. School vouchers divert money and attention from existing schools and are running public education into the ground.

Um, no. The NEA is running public education into the ground. Vouchers are a fair and equitable solution. Why should people be taxed for something they don't use?
 
Yes, the constitution does not allow public money to be spent on religious schools. If there were schools that were specifically anti-religious (as opposed to merely teaching accurate science and history), they would likewise not be eligible for public money.
Public money cannot go directly to religious schools; with vouchers, public money goes to parents who then have a choice in how to spend the money. This is allowed by the constitution.
 
Public money cannot go directly to religious schools; with vouchers, public money goes to parents who then have a choice in how to spend the money. This is allowed by the constitution.

The latest round of this, the court decided that even indirectly tax money cannot go to religious organizations. The Colorado Constitution is pretty clear on this.

Text of Section 34:
Appropriations to Private Institutions Forbidden.

No appropriation shall be made for charitable, industrial, educational or benevolent purposes to any person, corporation or community not under the absolute control of the state, nor to any denominational or sectarian institution or association.

Text of Section 7:
Aid to Private Schools, Churches, Sectarian Purpose, Forbidden.

Neither the general assembly, nor any county, city, town, township, school district or other public corporation, shall ever make any appropriation, or pay from any public fund or moneys whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectarian society, or for any sectarian purpose, or to help support or sustain any school, academy, seminary, college, university or other literary or scientific institution, controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatsoever; nor shall any grant or donation of land, money or other personal property, ever be made by the state, or any such public corporation to any church, or for any sectarian purpose
 
The latest round of this, the court decided that even indirectly tax money cannot go to religious organizations. The Colorado Constitution is pretty clear on this.
Yes, the question now is whether Colorado has a justifiable rationale for singling out schools with religious affiliations.
 
Yes, the question now is whether Colorado has a justifiable rationale for singling out schools with religious affiliations.

Yes. These schools want special exceptions. They don't want to follow the state curriculum, they want to be allowed to discriminate based on religion without penalty. Which they are not being forced to do. They are allowed to operate their schools as they see fit. But the public money goes to schools who follow the guidelines.

If you want access to this money you have to do these things. They don't want to do those things, they don't get access to that money. The question is really not about religion, it is about control. If you read the wording of the articles;

No appropriation shall be made for.....educational....purposes to any person, corporation or community not under the absolute control of the state

Neither the general assembly, nor any county, city, town, township, school district or other public corporation.....pay from any public fund or moneys whatever.....to help support or sustain any school.....controlled by any church or sectarian denomination

If there were religious schools that were able to comply with guidelines they would be eligible.
 
Last edited:
Good. School vouchers divert money and attention from existing schools and are running public education into the ground.

maybe if the public school system didn't stink then maybe people wouldn't be looking for solutions to solve the problem.

the question is why do you want to keep kids in bad public schools? I thought you were for poor kids? yet you want to keep them in bad schools that limit their education possibilities
why is that?
 
Public money cannot go directly to religious schools; with vouchers, public money goes to parents who then have a choice in how to spend the money. This is allowed by the constitution.

No, that's just a BS attempt to get around the constitution. Using a middle man doesn't change anything.
 
Good. School vouchers divert money and attention from existing schools and are running public education into the ground.

LOL. Vouchers are not what is running government schools into the ground. If government schools were good, people would not try to get vouchers to escape them.
 
No, that's just a BS attempt to get around the constitution. Using a middle man doesn't change anything.

I love how you authoritarians try to use the Constitution to keep free people from making free choices. Oh, that's right, you leftists are pro choice lol. How about giving people the choice to use their own education dollars where they choose to use them? Not for that sort of choice are you.
 
I love how you authoritarians try to use the Constitution to keep free people from making free choices. Oh, that's right, you leftists are pro choice lol. How about giving people the choice to use their own education dollars where they choose to use them? Not for that sort of choice are you.

It's not their dollars. We're talking about government vouchers. That's my money, and yours, and everyone else's. And that money doesn't go to fund religion in this country. The first amendment doesn't allow for public money to fund religion. If you want to spend your own money to go to a private religious school, go ahead. But you can't use the government to spend anyone else's money on it.
 
No, that's just a BS attempt to get around the constitution. Using a middle man doesn't change anything.
Not everyone agrees with SCOTUS decisions, but they are what they are, and that is the law. Vouchers can be used for education at religious schools, so long as the money doesn't go directly to the school.
 
Yes. These schools want special exceptions. They don't want to follow the state curriculum, they want to be allowed to discriminate based on religion without penalty. Which they are not being forced to do. They are allowed to operate their schools as they see fit. But the public money goes to schools who follow the guidelines.

If you want access to this money you have to do these things. They don't want to do those things, they don't get access to that money. The question is really not about religion, it is about control. If you read the wording of the articles;

If there were religious schools that were able to comply with guidelines they would be eligible.
That sounds like a separate argument. I haven't read the opinion, but if they did rule against for multiple reasons, then of course the aforementioned law could be found unconstitutional, but the overall decision not be overturned (though in that case, I don't know that it stands a very good chance of being considered by the SC).
 
I love how you authoritarians try to use the Constitution to keep free people from making free choices. Oh, that's right, you leftists are pro choice lol. How about giving people the choice to use their own education dollars where they choose to use them? Not for that sort of choice are you.

well, Colorado's constitution is pretty clear on it. public funds cannot go to private schools - whether or not they can single out religious schools in that sense is another question. I believe they cannot single out religious schools, and all private schools should be ineligible to receive public funds, either indirectly or directly (based on what CO's constitution says).
 
Back
Top Bottom