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Thread: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I didn't move the goal posts. I'm still playing on my goal posts. I stated that it wasn't until 1984 that the South went solidly Republican. Reagan won by single digit margins in the South in 1980, in 1984 Reagan won many Southern states by double digits, solidifying the Southern vote for Republicans.
    OK, I think of winning all the states but Carter's home state a "solid" win for Reagan in the South. We're splitting hairs.

    And show me where and when they started allowing Republicans to run. It seems a strange to argue that the South didn't turn Republican on race issues because Republicans couldn't run in local elections.
    That only helps the argument that White Racist Southerners remained hard core Democrats.
    You're making up straw men. I never said republicans COULD not run, but they just did not. It's just history, JT. It's what happened. And it's obvious you really know nothing at all about the politics of the South. The complete domination of the democratic party in the South wasn't an accident. Here's a primer for you:

    http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/White_primary.aspx

    Except that the Southern black voter turnout remained between 40-50% throughout the 20 years after the passage of the VRA. After a 10% jump in 1968 (when segregationist George Wallace won the deep south), the Southern black voter participation dropped back to 1964 rates by 1976. Southern black voter participation didn't start to climb steadily until 1980, 15 years after the passage of the VRA.
    And what? I have no idea what your point is.

    Championing the CRA doesn't mean he wasn't a racist. It is quite possible for someone to see blacks as inferior and still support their right to vote. Hell, with the general low view Democrat politicians have for the voting public, I'm sure Johnson's belief in the inferiority of the Black citizen was seen by him as a valuable asset for the Democrats.
    That's just partisan bs. You think the GOP holds the "voting public" you in high regard? If you do you're a bit naive.

    Yes, it's possible to be racist and support their civil and human rights. LBJ pushed legislation for the latter. His attitudes are easily distinguishable from southern white elected leaders who were racists and opposed human and civil rights for blacks.

    LBJ was a politician and like all politicians he did things he thought would get him more votes: "I’ll have those ni****s voting Democratic for the next 200 years.” - Lyndon Baines Johnson
    What's weird is you've got all this ammo against Democrats who pushed and voted for the CRA and VRA, and just don't ever mention the racists who supported Jim Crow.

    My point is that no matter how racist the third hand remembrance of the Republican "Southern Strategy" was, there is no evidence that such a plan was ever employed or effective in swaying Southern White votes. The only place a Southern Strategy as described was actually implemented was by George Wallace running as the Independence Party candidate in 1968. The Southern White vote flipped to Republican during the Reagan era when the Republican party ran on a conservative platform of small government and tax reform, not states rights and VRA opposition of the "Southern Strategy".
    I'm tired of debating this. The people involved have described the strategy. It involved race but wasn't limited to race. But it was no accident that Reagan appeared in Philadelphia Miss and championed 'states rights' but didn't mention civil rights.

    And you really should read a bit about voting and parties in the South before you start debating the history of the parties in this area.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    As for the KKK, today South Carolina took down the southern cross. I wonder why they did that...
    no need to spike the football

    accept the victory and act like you have been there before
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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    So what happens when a group decide that the Confederate Soldier Memorial has to go too?

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Rentoc View Post
    So what happens when a group decide that the Confederate Soldier Memorial has to go too?
    Will that happen? Not sure.

    I certainly hope not, because the majority who are asking for the flag to be removed, myself included, are not asking it to be stricken from history. It's a part of history. A bad part, mind you, but a part all the same, and as a result, should remain on Confederate memorials and in museums.
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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    Will that happen? Not sure.

    I certainly hope not, because the majority who are asking for the flag to be removed, myself included, are not asking it to be stricken from history. It's a part of history. A bad part, mind you, but a part all the same, and as a result, should remain on Confederate memorials and in museums.
    I don't have a problem with A flag from the Confederate era flying over a memorial, although there's no particular reason a memorial requires a flag, and they can all be displayed in a museum, but I do not think the Rebel flag, THAT design, the battle flag of the army of N. Va., should receive any position of honor from any government. Pick one of many flags not historically and currently associated with racists and historical (1960s) efforts to maintain the Jim Crow system in the south....

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no need to spike the football

    accept the victory and act like you have been there before
    I think that taking the flag down was a sad thing. My point has been that the "southern culture" has allowed elements like the KKK to represent southern thinking on matters of race. I think that the south at large should have put people like that down a long time ago, and that flag would still be flying in SC.

    So when the KKK announced that they were going to march on the flag issue, the south at large just sat on the hands.

    It's the south's fault that this is going on.
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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post

    So should they take it down?
    You have to be trying very hard to miss the point. Is that on state property somewhere? Did that building's owner install the swastika in protest of Jews getting equal rights? How old is it? Hell, is it in Europe or North America or did you just do a google search for "swastika" and that appeared? It's unlikely that areas with a thousands of years old history with the swastika and that has few if any Jewish residents will have the same association with the swastika.

    What we all know is if you have a meeting with a Jewish client next week, you'll leave your good luck swastika tie at home, and you're not going to paint a swastika on YOUR house unless you want to attract protests from your Jewish neighbors or have some desire to appeal to the anti-semitic bigots in your area.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You have to be trying very hard to miss the point. Is that on state property somewhere? Did that building's owner install the swastika in protest of Jews getting equal rights? How old is it? Hell, is it in Europe or North America or did you just do a google search for "swastika" and that appeared? It's unlikely that areas with a thousands of years old history with the swastika and that has few if any Jewish residents will have the same association with the swastika.

    What we all know is if you have a meeting with a Jewish client next week, you'll leave your good luck swastika tie at home, and you're not going to paint a swastika on YOUR house unless you want to attract protests from your Jewish neighbors or have some desire to appeal to the anti-semitic bigots in your area.
    So when Bill Clinton signed the 1987 law dedicating the top blue start in the Arkansas flag to commemorate the Confederacy was he doing it to piss off black people?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    So when Bill Clinton signed the 1987 law dedicating the top blue start in the Arkansas flag to commemorate the Confederacy was he doing it to piss off black people?
    If you want to have a discussion about another flag, start a thread about it.

    When all you have is straw men and red herrings, and can't defend the actual flag itself and it's easily documented recent history as a symbol for the defense of Jim Crow, you might need to rethink your position.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If you want to have a discussion about another flag, start a thread about it.

    When all you have is straw men and red herrings, and can't defend the actual flag itself and it's easily documented recent history as a symbol for the defense of Jim Crow, you might need to rethink your position.
    No, this is a thread about a symbol of the Confederacy. Bill Clinton wanted to honor the confederacy... was he doing so to piss off black people? I mean, historically the flag in question was not the flag of the Confederacy but that doesn't stop the idiots from calling it that.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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