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Thread: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

  1. #301
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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    He got the history straight from them. Its like having a WW2 vet in the family (which I do) and listening to their stories of been there done that.
    My dad's living and he's a veteran of the Battle of the Bulge. But hand me down stories from the civil war are not accurate history.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    My dad's living and he's a veteran of the Battle of the Bulge. But hand me down stories from the civil war are not accurate history.
    Your dad fought alongside a close friend of my family who passed away in 2008 at the age of 95. I could listen to him tell WW2 stories for hours.
    Life is short, ride a horse

  3. #303
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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You accept I guess why leaders across the South adopted that flag in the 1940s - 1960s? It was raised as a symbol of defiance against Federal efforts to end Jim Crow. I mean, that's just the history. If you were white standing along the route of some of those black civil rights marches waving the Rebel flag, no one had to guess whether you stood with MLK or George Wallace and his ilk. Wallace didn't pick the Rebel flag as a backdrop by accident, cause he liked the colors. That flag sent a signal to every white person in the South watching him - segregation now, etc. So what don't "Northern Liberals" understand?

    BTW, some of us southern boys understand our culture quite well, I've lived in it for 51 years. And what I understand is we have changed here. Those old racist attitudes aren't gone completely, but they're only held by bitter dead enders, losers, morons. It's why I so oppose this region holding onto such a symbol of those shameful days we should be proud to have put behind us.
    It is, IMHO attitudes like yours, that perpetuate some sort of white guilt, and a major reason NC has become what it is today....I am in NO WAY advocating racism, but, you are cheering the first step in altering our history, and possibly ensuring that we repeat it. Good Job.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It is, IMHO attitudes like yours, that perpetuate some sort of white guilt, and a major reason NC has become what it is today....I am in NO WAY advocating racism, but, you are cheering the first step in altering our history, and possibly ensuring that we repeat it. Good Job.
    OK, what part of Southern history have I altered in the slightest? The Rebel flag's history is easily documented. Do a Google image search - you'll see all the documentation you need of how it was used in the civil rights era.

    And what makes it likely we'll repeat our history is the inability of we in this region to squarely face our history and repudiate it. I don't feel any "white guilt" for attitudes I was taught by my parents to reject and that I reject as an adult. But I also don't pretend that the South didn't treat blacks like second class citizens, enforced by the police power of the State and that people in power did not raise the banner of the Rebel flag in defiance of Federal efforts to end that shameful era.

    One more thing, I get that the flag means "Southern Pride" etc. to an awful lot of people. But we also KNOW what it means to most blacks, and it's how it was used by white guys protesting civil rights. So to me if the South stands for anything it's not, "Yeah, this offends you? F**k you!" So there isn't any occasion that I'd wear that symbol. To me it's no more than common courtesy, respect for others, especially for others who were directly or whose ancestors were oppressed by folks waving that relic of history.

    If others want to, fine, I think it's a sign of an idiot, racist, and/or jerk, and a heads up on that is always helpful. But there's no excuse for a state to fly a banner that for GOOD REASONS, confirmed by any 3 second Google image search, is offensive to a large share of their population.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    As I said, "but not by a landslide!" You moved the goal posts from winning to winning by huge margins.
    I didn't move the goal posts. I'm still playing on my goal posts. I stated that it wasn't until 1984 that the South went solidly Republican. Reagan won by single digit margins in the South in 1980, in 1984 Reagan won many Southern states by double digits, solidifying the Southern vote for Republicans.


    Again, this is a straightforward sentence: "that didn't even HAVE actual general elections for many offices in many areas including my dad's hometown." Or, more clearly, the Democrat ran UNOPPOSED in most general election races, and 100% of office holders were white and Democrats.
    And show me where and when they started allowing Republicans to run. It seems a strange to argue that the South didn't turn Republican on race issues because Republicans couldn't run in local elections.
    That only helps the argument that White Racist Southerners remained hard core Democrats.


    I guess you don't really get why we needed the Voting Rights Act in the South. Blacks weren't allowed to register, or allowed to vote, and therefore also couldn't run for office or serve on juries. It's a sort of an important feature about the South and race and parties. I couldn't find a verifiable source, but one article put the number at 3% of blacks registered in the South in 1940. In Mississippi in 1960, many sources say only 5% of blacks were registered. And that was because of Jim Crow, not apathy. So those Gallup Polls just omit blacks in that region.
    Except that the Southern black voter turnout remained between 40-50% throughout the 20 years after the passage of the VRA. After a 10% jump in 1968 (when segregationist George Wallace won the deep south), the Southern black voter participation dropped back to 1964 rates by 1976. Southern black voter participation didn't start to climb steadily until 1980, 15 years after the passage of the VRA.

    And you're making the same mistake everyone else does when they say "Democrats opposed the Civil Rights Act!! They're the REAL RACISTS!!! AHA!!!" No, southern whites did, and they were nearly all democrats. Democrats in the entire rest of the country voted nearly 100% FOR the CRA and VRA. And the Democrats didn't run Southern racists for POTUS. LBJ was a Southerner and supported the CRA.
    Championing the CRA doesn't mean he wasn't a racist. It is quite possible for someone to see blacks as inferior and still support their right to vote. Hell, with the general low view Democrat politicians have for the voting public, I'm sure Johnson's belief in the inferiority of the Black citizen was seen by him as a valuable asset for the Democrats.

    LBJ was a politician and like all politicians he did things he thought would get him more votes: "Ill have those ni****s voting Democratic for the next 200 years. - Lyndon Baines Johnson

    I think your point is the Southern Strategy was more than "appeal to racists and they'll come to the GOP to get away from the blacks" and I agree. Race was just one of several reasons for the shift of Southern whites from nearly 100% democratic in 1960 to dominated by the GOP in the current era. But what you can't ignore is the national Democratic party's support for civil rights caused a huge split in the South, which is why the DIxiecrats emerged in the 1940s and the South went for Wallace in 1968. Goldwater ran against forced desegregation, and won the South. You can say all you want his motives were "states rights" but they just "happened" to align with Southern racists views of white supremacy and would have allowed blacks to be treated as second class citizens for a generation more or so. So the politics of race aren't the only cause, but were a big cause and in any event greased the wheels for the realignment of southern whites back to the party of the despised Lincoln and all that his hated Republican party did during reconstruction.
    My point is that no matter how racist the third hand remembrance of the Republican "Southern Strategy" was, there is no evidence that such a plan was ever employed or effective in swaying Southern White votes. The only place a Southern Strategy as described was actually implemented was by George Wallace running as the Independence Party candidate in 1968. The Southern White vote flipped to Republican during the Reagan era when the Republican party ran on a conservative platform of small government and tax reform, not states rights and VRA opposition of the "Southern Strategy".
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    No, that's not why it is NOT banned. So you got two things wrong.

    It's been condemned (but not banned) because of the easily documented recent history of that flag during our lifetimes, which was as a symbol of protest against civil rights for blacks, raised by people in positions of power across the state.
    Fair enough. I see it this...well, what can I call it...a "suspension" of the Confederate flag despite its offensive history as being a sidestep for gun control and mental illness in this country. Nikki Haley can ass-kiss herself all she wants in front of the press, anti-defamation, and civil rights groups but I have yet to hear her really address gun control other than making it easier for concealed permits while hiding her head in the sand regurgitating the Second Amendment. A concealed permit would not have saved the lives of those people that horrible day in church. No doubt she is a NRA bought and paid for Rethuglicon puppet. She frowns upon Medicaid calling it a "broken system." Okay, I can agree with her on that up to a point. Still, Medicaid would be better than no system at all for a lunatic like Dylan to receive some form of mental help which he so desperately needed.

  7. #307
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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the swastika, once a peaceful religious symbol of buddhists and hindus, was later co-opted by the nazis

    think it would be appropriate to now fly a flag bearing that same symbol

    ditto for the confederate battle flag in the present era. it no longer represents what it once did, like the ancient swastika
    Swastika-seoel.jpg

    So should they take it down?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Carlsberg beer used to use the swastika on its labels, before the nazis co-opted it.

    Been gone ever since, and still a damned fine beer.
    Ich habe schon Pferde vor der Apotheke kotzen sehen.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But I also don't pretend that the South didn't treat blacks like second class citizens, enforced by the police power of the State...
    You sure you know history? Second class citizens should be a misnomer. Blacks were hung from trees in the south like it was spectator sport while the Confederate flag flew in the wind like how a child flies a kite.

  10. #310
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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    As for the KKK, today South Carolina took down the southern cross. I wonder why they did that...
    You can dance without a lawyer

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