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Thread: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

  1. #261
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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What is disturbing is how easily so many are manipulated...
    It's disturbing, but at the same time, it isn't the least bit surprising.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Has nothing to do with the "heritage of a state." Fact is that flag was flown by people defending Jim Crow in many of our lifetimes. That flag's memory will always be stained by how white racists in the highest positions of power in the South used it, which was the banner they raised in defense of Jim Crow.

    The flag defenders cannot even acknowledge the shameful but easily documented history of that flag even exists.
    So, because something is "co-opted" it becomes that?

    Seems to me that many in the white supremacy movement also fly the American flag....Should we take that down as a racist symbol too?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Good point. One lunatic shows himself with a Confederate flag and the flag is banned....
    No, that's not why it is NOT banned. So you got two things wrong.

    It's been condemned (but not banned) because of the easily documented recent history of that flag during our lifetimes, which was as a symbol of protest against civil rights for blacks, raised by people in positions of power across the state.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, because something is "co-opted" it becomes that?
    When it's co-opted by legislators and governors, yes that symbol is forever tainted by the purpose for which they co-opted that symbol. In 1961, it meant "Defense of Jim Crow" to the legislature and governor who installed it at the capital in SC, to Georgia who incorporated it into their state flag, to Wallace who defended Jim Crow with the Rebel flag as a backdrop, etc. The legislature can't erase that history of that flag as a symbol across the South of state sponsored discrimination against blacks.

    If it was just a bunch of KKKers, fine. It wasn't.

    Seems to me that many in the white supremacy movement also fly the American flag....Should we take that down as a racist symbol too?
    Apples and oranges. When has the Confederate flag meant equal rights for blacks? When it was used in the Civil War it was by armies that if they won would have preserved their status as owned property for the foreseeable future. When it was raised in the 1950s and 1960s by LEGISLATORS and GOVERNORS, it was in defense of continuing their century long status as second class citizens denied basic civil and human rights.

    It's not how KKK and other whack jobs use or used the Rebel flag, the problem is how the flag was used by people wielding immense power in STATE GOVERNMENTS all across the South.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    It's disturbing, but at the same time, it isn't the least bit surprising.
    No, it's not surprising how many have been duped by revisionists eager to erase the history of slavery and Jim Crow in the South, and how that flag stood for both. Facing up to our shameful past in this region would require us to acknowledge the wrong, without excuses. It's easier to pretend our ancestors fought for high ideals like "states rights" than for the right to continue to own other human beings in a state of bondage, stripped of the basic human and civil rights we take for granted.

  6. #266
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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    When it's co-opted by legislators and governors, yes that symbol is forever tainted by the purpose for which they co-opted that symbol. In 1961, it meant "Defense of Jim Crow" to the legislature and governor who installed it at the capital in SC, to Georgia who incorporated it into their state flag, to Wallace who defended Jim Crow with the Rebel flag as a backdrop, etc. The legislature can't erase that history of that flag as a symbol across the South of state sponsored discrimination against blacks.

    If it was just a bunch of KKKers, fine. It wasn't.



    Apples and oranges. When has the Confederate flag meant equal rights for blacks? When it was used in the Civil War it was by armies that if they won would have preserved their status as owned property for the foreseeable future. When it was raised in the 1950s and 1960s by LEGISLATORS and GOVERNORS, it was in defense of continuing their century long status as second class citizens denied basic civil and human rights.

    It's not how KKK and other whack jobs use or used the Rebel flag, the problem is how the flag was used by people wielding immense power in STATE GOVERNMENTS all across the South.
    Was not the American flag being wielded during those events as well? Why not take that one down too?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, it's 'mob demand' when the heritage of a state can be brushed to a trash bin so easily when one mentally ill individual kills some people, and a picture of this individual holding a Confederate battle flag comes out through the media, and gins everyone up to getting it taken down....
    The heritage of human trafficking and slavery ought not be celebrated! What's wrong with you? The history of it will not be lost and forgotten, even by placing its symbols in a museum.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What is disturbing is how easily so many are manipulated...
    Yes, and the TSA, DHS and PA all manipulating policies of the Bush administration. And true, we're still removing our shoes at the airport.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    All of it mattered...While slave labor was a catalyst for the South's economy, it wasn't the only reason that the states wanted out...DC was ignoring the constitution, and giving unfair treatment of the states in the form of taxation, and subsidy...That is a fact. You can argue where the emphasis should be in that argument, but as you, yourself said, NOTHING is that simple..
    They were ignoring the Constitution as it related to one issue - SLAVERY.

    And I can argue and point to the words of the states seceding which issue they said at the time was paramount. There really is objective evidence that indicates the issues were 1) slavery, in the states and in the territories, and 2) everything else. If you solve everything in the second category, do you really believe the states don't secede? Slavery was THE threat to their way of life, the power structure, the economy. All the rest was secondary to that.

    Really, the VP of the Confederacy frames the issue quite elegantly:

    Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. [Applause.] This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”
    It's hard to make the point any clearer than how their own leaders said it in their own words at the time.
    Last edited by JasperL; 07-09-15 at 01:43 PM.

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    Re: KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You know who else has ties to the KKK? Democrats.
    And, if you look at who is in there now, they are republicans. As was pointed out many times, when the civil rights movement happened, when the democrats signed onto the civil rights movement, they jumped ship, and become republicans. That was what the whole 'Southern Strategy' by Nixon was about.
    Knee-jerk anti-government sentiment is not a viable political philosophy.

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