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Thread: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The founders didn't want us voting on senators either, we amended the constitution to change that. This is no different. I believe in democracy and it's high time that principle extended to the judiciary, not just the executive and legislative branches
    I think the arguments in favor of reverting the election of Senators to State Legislatures are intriguing at least inasmuch as they focus on encouraging civic interest in State and Local government which is lacking. I don't believe in 'Democracy' I believe in a Democratic form of government with significant checks on the People. Therefore I fiercely support our existing Judicial structure as an essential check not only on the Legislative and Executive branches but as a check on the People. I'm not at all averse to the Judiciary acting as the body which cuts the 'Gordian Knot' in order to advance our country as our decentralized federal structure makes sweeping reform and change quite difficult. Usually this is a good thing but there are times when 'States Rights' and 'Popular Sovereignty' must be crushed in favor of paving the way forward--like in Brown v. Board which many scholars term a 'moment of Constitutional Amendment'.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Actually....I find the holding of the SCOTUS much more meaningful than a "popular victory"....essentially the SCOTUS said that the right to marriage is so fundamental that it should never be put to a popular vote. THAT is much more meaningful.
    Some people prefer autocratic power. Most people prefer to have a hand in their own destiny, therefore most people will choose democracy when given the chance

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The irony and ignorance in this post is astounding. A clear indication that the poster has no clue what the Constitution is and why it exists.
    The OP's suggestion was a constitutional amendment to have Supreme Court judges be elected....similar to how we had a constitutional amendment to elect senators.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    No but he can indri dice the legislation as a senator as well
    He can filibuster and attempt to introduce things, but he's pretty well marginalized, ineffective, and irrelevant in the Senate these days too. He's burned too many bridges with his arrogance and ignorance to ever be a meaningful force in government.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I think the arguments in favor of reverting the election of Senators to State Legislatures are intriguing at least inasmuch as they focus on encouraging civic interest in State and Local government which is lacking. I don't believe in 'Democracy' I believe in a Democratic form of government with significant checks on the People. Therefore I fiercely support our existing Judicial structure as an essential check not only on the Legislative and Executive branches but as a check on the People. I'm not at all averse to the Judiciary acting as the body which cuts the 'Gordian Knot' in order to advance our country as our decentralized federal structure makes sweeping reform and change quite difficult. Usually this is a good thing but there are times when 'States Rights' and 'Popular Sovereignty' must be crushed in favor of paving the way forward--like in Brown v. Board which many scholars term a 'moment of Constitutional Amendment'.
    I strongly disagree with you, although I do respect the logic behind your opinion.

    I believe we should never underestimate or baby the public. Put as much power in the hands of the people, and as little in the hands of autocrats as possible.

    In no way does 9 lifetime, unelected individuals holding as much power as they do over 350 million citizens make any sense, even if one does insist on some degree of judicial independence.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Not a "collective" right wing reaction. Some of us don't hold any of those thoughts. Some of us say "Who cares who marries who? Stay out of it. Let adults pick their spouses and butt out."
    Whatever 2-3 people you're talking about does not really speak for a general depiction of the right wing's reaction.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Some people prefer autocratic power. Most people prefer to have a hand in their own destiny, therefore most people will choose democracy when given the chance
    Most people would find it morally degrading that their marriage is put to a popular vote. Should we put inter-racial marriage to a popular vote? What about inter-faith marriages....should they be put to a popular vote?
    <font size=5><b>Doing nothing is no longer acceptable!​</b></font>

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I strongly disagree with you, although I do respect the logic behind your opinion.

    I believe we should never underestimate or baby the public. Put as much power in the hands of the people, and as little in the hands of autocrats as possible.

    In no way does 9 lifetime, unelected individuals holding as much power as they do over 350 million citizens make any sense, even if one does insist on some degree of judicial independence.
    It absolutely makes sense when you understand that the Constitution exists for the simple fact that there are certain rights that are so fundamental that they should never be put to whim of the majority. Why even have a Constitution if you are going to put everything to a popular vote? There would be no purpose for it.

    I can tell you one group that would absolutely hate what you are proposing....gun owners.
    <font size=5><b>Doing nothing is no longer acceptable!​</b></font>

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Some people prefer autocratic power. Most people prefer to have a hand in their own destiny, therefore most people will choose democracy when given the chance
    So you would be ok with DC v Heller being overturned to meet public demand for gun control?

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Most people would find it morally degrading that their marriage is put to a popular vote. Should we put inter-racial marriage to a popular vote? What about inter-faith marriages....should they be put to a popular vote?
    I think the idea that we would so fundamentally alter the structure of our government over one minor hot button issue is a nonstarter.

    The question whether judges should be elected is bigger than gay marriage. It comes down to what constitutes a fair system of government and how much do you trust the American Public to govern itself?

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