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Thread: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

  1. #151
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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I just found this picture of the Cruz campaign plane.

    Attachment 67186471


    Psst.... its a joke. That isn't really the Cruz campaign plane. We all know before you can go "down in flames" you first must get airborne. We know this is not the Cruz plane because his campaign is not now, nor will it ever be, airborne.
    Funny, but.....he's got a lot of funding and is very popular among the Tea Party crowd. I would "misunderestimate" him. Altho he doesn't have a chance to win, really.
    ________________________________

  2. #152
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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    All I'm saying is I want Supreme Court judges to be elected, just like senators are elected. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. I was just banned for 2 days for taking bait like this, I won't make the same mistake twice. Let's just keep a civil discussion going on the issues, please. I'd like to say I learned my lesson.
    So, you are a conservative that has found fault with the Constitution.... interesting!

    Sorry, the idea of electing the SCOTUS seems something close to asinine. That is just what we need: politicians running $1B campaigns to get elected to something, that in a post-popular vote America, would really just be an 9 man legislature.

    Fortunately, our founding fathers were geniuses. In creating the appointed for-life SCOTUS, they established a branch of government that generally protects us from our short-sided whims and knee-jerk reactions... and, most importantly, protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority (which would not happen if they are elected by the majority).....

    The idea of electing the SCOTUS would render it almost useless to its mission.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 06-29-15 at 09:59 PM.

  3. #153
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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by free_think View Post
    You seem to be advocating the removal of the checks and balances system created by our constitution. In other words, the legislature rules supreme without any objective restraint.

    Subjugating the federal judiciary to elections puts them in the same position as the legislature as far as being subject to the whim of popular opinion (or in the case of marriage equality, a very loud but not so popular opinion).

    You, and Ted Cruise seem to be advocating that we change our entire system of governance from a constitutional republic to an absolute democracy where majority rules regardless of the implications on civil rights.

    I'm not sure you are following your assertions to their logical conclusions. If we remove the judicial branch from the system of checks and balances, what will replace it? The will of the people? That would be an absolute democracy. In this case, why even bother with judges at all, just put everything up to popular vote and to heck with restraint.

    As has been pointed out, it's highly likely that such a move would backfire on those who propose it. Taking recent polls into account, how do you think the nation as a whole would vote on marriage equality today?
    Checks and balances are what make our constitution and our system of government so great. What is being proposed here, allowing people to democratically elect justices rather than have them appointed for us, would IMPROVE our checks and balances!

    That's why it's such a great idea. It would re balance government in such a way that freedom and liberty and democracy win.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    Yes, let's have judges who are elected! That way, Exxon gets the rulings IT wants, and the animal rights organizations can get the rulings THEY want, and Big Pharma can get the rulings IT wants. Just like our other politicians, who are bought and paid for by special interests. Yay!
    I'm sorry you have such a negative view of democracy. Democracy is a way for people to be in charge of their own destiny, rather than rely on the benevolence of those appointed to oversee them, as is the case in other systems of government (and our own appointment of judges).

    I believe in the American People. I would like to empower Americans to make their own choices as much as possible.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    No, you don't. You don't understand politics at all. You WANT people who aren't beholden to anyone to decide cases based on the law, without fear of losing funding for their next election, or in fear of not getting that fat job with Big Pharma after they leave their judgeship.
    I just can't think that cynically. I'm an optimist, I believe in choice and democracy and the ultimate goodness of the American Public to make good decisions.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Checks and balances are what make our constitution and our system of government so great. What is being proposed here, allowing people to democratically elect justices rather than have them appointed for us, would IMPROVE our checks and balances!

    That's why it's such a great idea. It would re balance government in such a way that freedom and liberty and democracy win.
    It is a very stupid idea. Judges are not politicians, nor should they lower themselves to fundraising (and being beholden to their donors) and running for office.

    This system works, besides, if some liberal judges got elected you'd be whining and crying for change.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    So, you are a conservative that has found fault with the Constitution.... interesting!

    Sorry, the idea of electing the SCOTUS seems something close to asinine. That is just what we need: politicians running $1B campaigns to get elected to something, that in a post-popular vote America, would really just be an 9 man legislature.

    Fortunately, our founding fathers were geniuses. In creating the appointed for-life SCOTUS, they established a branch of government that generally protects us from our short-sided whims and knee-jerk reactions... and, most importantly, protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority (which would not happen if they are elected by the majority).....

    The idea of electing the SCOTUS would render it almost useless to its mission.
    Our founding fathers were the greatest generation of political thinkers collected under one roof, perhaps in the history of the world.

    It would be a disservice to them, then if the rest of us rested on their laurels and took the fact that we're born Americans as license to sit around and be lazy. We still need to actively participate in our government and continually maintain the vision they left with us: that we should have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.... a government with proper checks and balances.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    It is a very stupid idea. Judges are not politicians, nor should they lower themselves to fundraising (and being beholden to their donors) and running for office.

    This system works, besides, if some liberal judges got elected you'd be whining and crying for change.
    Running for office is not the bad thing you seem to think it is. It's part of the democratic process.... getting your message out there to voters. Our political process is part of what makes America great!

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Running for office is not the bad thing you seem to think it is. It's part of the democratic process.... getting your message out there to voters. Our political process is part of what makes America great!
    Selling your vote, getting dark money, pimping yourself out.

    Nope.

    Everyone wants to stick to the constitution...except when they disagree with something.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Why wait around and hope that the court will suddenly find "restraint," or why hang our hats on a subjective standard of "good behavior" which has been used to remove zero Supreme Court justices in my memory.

    We need a mechanism to ensure judicial restraint, and to ensure good behavior... to where it is no longer a question of hoping and watching, but rather an active, democratic process.

    It seems to me, no better judge of good behavior and ethical restraint exist than the voting American Public.
    I discussed quite a number of checks on the Supreme Court that are already available, some of which have been used. I think they are more than powerful enough, whenever there is the will to use them. I am reluctant to support drastic measures because I appreciate the importance of insulating the justices pretty thoroughly from outside influences. It seems clear to me that too much volatility in the Supreme Court invites decisions that bend the meaning of the Constitution to suit political trends. We already have too much of that going on.

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