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Thread: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

  1. #141
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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Why wait around and hope that the court will suddenly find "restraint," or why hang our hats on a subjective standard of "good behavior" which has been used to remove zero Supreme Court justices in my memory.

    We need a mechanism to ensure judicial restraint, and to ensure good behavior... to where it is no longer a question of hoping and watching, but rather an active, democratic process.

    It seems to me, no better judge of good behavior and ethical restraint exist than the voting American Public.
    You seem to be advocating the removal of the checks and balances system created by our constitution. In other words, the legislature rules supreme without any objective restraint.

    Subjugating the federal judiciary to elections puts them in the same position as the legislature as far as being subject to the whim of popular opinion (or in the case of marriage equality, a very loud but not so popular opinion).

    You, and Ted Cruise seem to be advocating that we change our entire system of governance from a constitutional republic to an absolute democracy where majority rules regardless of the implications on civil rights.

    I'm not sure you are following your assertions to their logical conclusions. If we remove the judicial branch from the system of checks and balances, what will replace it? The will of the people? That would be an absolute democracy. In this case, why even bother with judges at all, just put everything up to popular vote and to heck with restraint.

    As has been pointed out, it's highly likely that such a move would backfire on those who propose it. Taking recent polls into account, how do you think the nation as a whole would vote on marriage equality today?

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The OP is a suggestion to amend the constitution. I suspect if you asked a simple question via referendum to the Anerican public, they would answer "yes" rather resoundingly..."should Supreme Court judges be elected by the public rather than appointed for life by the president?"
    I suspect you'd be bitterly disappointed, but will put cash money on it isn't the first disappointment you have faced.

    Back when the CONs were appointing the Justices there was no call for 'reform'. BushII appointed a very young Chief Justice thinking a CON Justice would be running the Court for a long time... funny how that worked out, ain't it.

    I reckon you know how Justices get on the Bench, you just like playing silly CON games with the process. I do believe it takes a bit more than just being 'appointed' by the President, I do believe the Justice has to run the posturing bicker factory's thousand wacks of a 'confirmation process' with 2/3rds of the elected boobs voting to seat the candidate.

    I believe the Founders and follow-up early politicians got the Judical just about right. For all some on both sides of the politics game howl about 'unelected'- who feared/loathed unelected leaders more than those who just threw off a monarchy- now THAT was an unelected Boob.

    But it is fun to watch the CONs carry on about unelected lawyers, appointed for life tyrants... throw in some crap about Amending the Constitution to 'protect' marriage, and 'defend' religion and the Clowns have once again taken center stage in the GOP nomination process and all but assures Hillary will have a historic Presidency....

  3. #143
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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign : It's All Politics : NPR

    Well so much for the SCOTUS ruling not being an election issue. I wonder how much traction the judicial elections amendment will get. I am sure the liberals would love another shot at Citizens United and Hobby Lobby in their lifetime. It might not go like Cruz thinks. There is a reason the founding fathers wanted to put justices above the sway of election cycles and political parties.
    I don't know how popular that issue will be. Remember Cruz's "cause" to shut the govt down to prevent the final provisions of Obamacare from being funded? It cost the govt billions of dollars, and citizens their income and jobs, and everyone knew it was just a publicity stunt without a chance of doing anything.
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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Cruz will be nowhere near the nomination and the 2016 election will be about a dozen other things before anyone even thinks or considers SSM. Unless the left is foolish enough to attempt to attack religious institutions, it is dead as an issue at the federal level, in my view. If the left is that foolish, all bets are off.
    Why would the left atack religious institutions? Liberals go to church, too. ????
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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Cruz is Donald Trump with a law degree. They will both, hopefully, not find their way onto the stage for many or any Republican debates.
    I agree to some extent. Except that Cruz (who is a newbie, after all) has a lot of money from donors. He's a sweetheart of the Tea Party (although, if you notice, they are keeping a low profile of late).
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  6. #146
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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Yes I would rather have a judicial branch that is answerable to the electorate. Why shouldn't the people have a say in what kind of country they want to live in?

    Think of it this way, 9 unelected judges over the American population means that each unelected judge rules over about 35 million people for life without seeking representation from them. It's the ultimate farce. No matter how educated they are, no one deserves that kind of power
    Yes, let's have judges who are elected! That way, Exxon gets the rulings IT wants, and the animal rights organizations can get the rulings THEY want, and Big Pharma can get the rulings IT wants. Just like our other politicians, who are bought and paid for by special interests. Yay!
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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The founders didn't want us voting on senators either, we amended the constitution to change that. This is no different. I believe in democracy and it's high time that principle extended to the judiciary, not just the executive and legislative branches
    There's nothing so corrupt as a politician who depends on money from corporations and people to keep his job. Once "elected" by big money, he is beholden to do their bidding.

    Once a S.Ct. justice is appointed and confirmed, s/he has a job for life and is secure to make decisions that are not related to special interests, funding issues, keeping a job. That is, s/he is more pure in his decisions than an elected official.

    The President nominates people to the S.Ct., and the Senate has a say through a confirmation process, including rejection of the nominee.

    It's a pretty good system. Believe me, you don't want elected officials deciding our constitutional rights. Our rights would be stripped in no time for the benefit of big business.
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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I don't think the will of the people and the constitution/law are in direct opposition. It's not an either/or. I want judges who base their decision on the rule of law AND who are accountable to the public whom they serve.

    I think six year terms are quite reasonable in this regard.
    No, you don't. You don't understand politics at all. You WANT people who aren't beholden to anyone to decide cases based on the law, without fear of losing funding for their next election, or in fear of not getting that fat job with Big Pharma after they leave their judgeship.
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  9. #149
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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign : It's All Politics : NPR

    Well so much for the SCOTUS ruling not being an election issue. I wonder how much traction the judicial elections amendment will get. I am sure the liberals would love another shot at Citizens United and Hobby Lobby in their lifetime. It might not go like Cruz thinks. There is a reason the founding fathers wanted to put justices above the sway of election cycles and political parties.
    I just found this picture of the Cruz campaign plane.

    plane-going-down.jpg


    Psst.... its a joke. That isn't really the Cruz campaign plane. We all know before you can go "down in flames" you first must get airborne. We know this is not the Cruz plane because his campaign is not now, nor will it ever be, airborne.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Says who? That seems backwards. I don't want a justice who is out of touch, I want one who is tuned in to public discourse and who is ultimately accountable to the people he serves.
    Dear Peter:

    Our rights exist NOT to protect what the majority wants or is. The majority doesn't need protection. The rights granted by the Constitution exist to protect the MINORITY.

    So you see, the Justices are not on teh bench to decide cases in accordance with what the MAJORITY of the people in the country think. We don't decide whether other people have certain rights. The Constitution grants certain rights to the country's citizens, and a panel of nine people, removed from influence, sit to decide the application of those rights in individual real-life situations.

    If most people in the country wanted to make one race second class citizens, they couldn't, because that race has Constitutional protections. The Law of the Land is not based on what the majority wants.

    If our Founding Fathers wanted the majority to decide on who gets what rights, they would have set up the system that way. They expressly put that in the hands of a group of justices, free of politics to the extent possible, who are schooled in the law and legal cases, to decide specific real-life applications of the rights in the Constitution.

    The majority, thankfully, cannot take away your rights or my rights. The whole country could decide, for example, that we don't want Peter to have freedom of speech rights. You could sue us, and the U.S. Supreme Court would decide NOT whether the people in the country really don't want Peter to have freedom of speech; it would decide if the freedom of speech right in the Constitution applies to Peter.

    The justices decide on the rights as stated in the Constitution. If we were to have a vote on an issue, most people wouldn't understand that the question is not whether we WANT something, but whether that right is covered in the Constitution (whether we like it or not). Most people haven't even read the Constitution, and if they did, wouldn't necessarily understand the rights given in it.
    Last edited by JumpinJack; 06-29-15 at 10:07 PM.
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