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Thread: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

  1. #111
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    Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Agree to disagree, but no need to make this personal.
    I can agree to not make it personal here because it is a web forum, but let's examine why your statement is incredibly audacious.

    Why shouldn't we make it personal? It's a very personal matter to the folks you wish to oppress.

    We could keep our distance because you hold no power, but if you did, they would have every right to make it personal because it impacts them to an extent you wouldn't have to deal with, nor would you tolerate if it was done to you.

    If you not only had publicly advocated for the ability to vote for for a Judge, rallied for a Judge with your proclivities, and in your own little way advocated to influence the outcome of a case by way of mass outrage, I would think very much that they would have every right to take it personally and admonish you for it.

    I know it's easy for you to keep your distance, because voting against gay marriage doesn't affect you either way, but it nevertheless does great impact the civil liberties of others.
    "We all of us know down here that politics is a tough game. And I don't think there's any point in being Irish if you don't know that the world is going to break your heart eventually."-Daniel Patrick Moynihan, December 5, 1963

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lmao:



    We know that sentiment wouldn't apply to these imaginary SCOTUS elections if you're on the losing end... right?
    Reported for personal attack. Keep it civil and on topic, please.

    My goodness, I can't verify that quote was even me. That would've been 3 years ago if so.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I can agree to not make it personal here because it is a web forum, but let's examine why your statement is incredibly audacious.

    Why shouldn't we make it personal? It's a very personal matter to the folks you wish to oppress.

    We could keep our distance because you hold no power, but if you did, they would have every right to make it personal because it impacts them to an extent you wouldn't have to deal with, nor would you tolerate if it was done to you.

    If you not only had publicly advocated for the ability to vote for for a Judge, rallied for a Judge with your proclivities, and in your own little way advocated to influence the outcome of a case by way of mass outrage, I would think very much that they would have every right to take it personally and admonish you for it.

    I know it's easy for you to keep your distance, because voting against gay marriage doesn't affect you either way, but it nevertheless does great impact the civil liberties of others.
    All I'm saying is I want Supreme Court judges to be elected, just like senators are elected. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. I was just banned for 2 days for taking bait like this, I won't make the same mistake twice. Let's just keep a civil discussion going on the issues, please. I'd like to say I learned my lesson.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I would be in favor of more judges, of having the judges elected, and having the judges serve 6 year terms similar to senators. That way, they are at least somewhat accountable to the people they are meant to govern.



    Judges do not "govern" anyone, they merely interpret the words of those who do govern. That's why they aren't subject to election.

    If the legislature had not written equal protection under the law into the constitution, it could not have been interpreted to mean that all people (including gays, and including laws on marriage) were guaranteed equal protection.

    Cruse's proposal is the ultimate grasping at straws.

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    Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    All I'm saying is I want Supreme Court judges to be elected, just like senators are elected. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. I was just banned for 2 days for taking bait like this, I won't make the same mistake twice. Let's just keep a civil discussion going on the issues, please. I'd like to say I learned my lesson.

    But it is on topic. Increasing democracy to the court system increases to prominence of the citizenry's impulses and their motivations for certain justices *and* expected rulings. Your advocacy of such a position, much like Mr. Cruz, is predicated on a certain belief that the solution must come because of a specific outcome in a specific case by which a minority was granted civil rights.

    It's all related and the consequences of your policy idea would necessarily mean that the motivations of the citizenry take center stage in the highest court in the criminal justice system. Your proposal does not exist in a vacuum, however much of an inconvenience it is for you to accept that.

    Call it bait if you wish, but this is merely basic intellectual research and discussion.

    I don't need to press any further, because I've said all I can, and you've said as little as you can.
    "We all of us know down here that politics is a tough game. And I don't think there's any point in being Irish if you don't know that the world is going to break your heart eventually."-Daniel Patrick Moynihan, December 5, 1963

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by free_think View Post
    Judges do not "govern" anyone, they merely interpret the words of those who do govern. That's why they aren't subject to election.

    If the legislature had not written equal protection under the law into the constitution, it could not have been interpreted to mean that all people (including gays, and including laws on marriage) were guaranteed equal protection.

    Cruse's proposal is the ultimate grasping at straws.
    They do govern, though. They have the power to set policy by defining laws. They do this by way of establishing legal precedent for lower courts to follow.

    I agree that Cruz's proposal is unlikely to pass, however, this site being one where politics are debated, I am expressing my opinion in favor of it. I think his proposal is highly democratic and it shares my optimistic view of the capabilities of the Anerican People

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Campaign

    As if Cruz gives a flying **** what the homosexual lunatic fringe thinks of him.
    "Opportunity does not come knocking. It is usually running down the street, you have to chase and tackle it." - Sheriff David Clarke, Milwaukee County.

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    But it is on topic. Increasing democracy to the court system increases to prominence of the citizenry's impulses and their motivations for certain justices *and* expected rulings. Your advocacy of such a position, much like Mr. Cruz, is predicated on a certain belief that the solution must come because of a specific outcome in a specific case by which a minority was granted civil rights.

    It's all related and the consequences of your policy idea would necessarily mean that the motivations of the citizenry take center stage in the highest court in the criminal justice system. Your proposal does not exist in a vacuum, however much of an inconvenience it is for you to accept that.

    Call it bait if you wish, but this is merely basic intellectual research and discussion.

    I don't need to press any further, because I've said all I can, and you've said as little as you can.
    The problem is you never know another man's motivation, and I'm under no obligation to explain myself to you.

    I'm here to debate issues. If you want to speculate on why I believe or advocate for this or that, I won't entertain it.

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    Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The problem is you never know another man's motivation, and I'm under no obligation to explain myself to you.
    Don't you find that incredibly hypocritical considering you're wanting the right to determine the human and civil rights of swaths of the American public?

    They have to explain themselves to you, but be damned if the same is asked of you?

    I suppose it helps being part of the comfortable majority. You get to say your motivations are beyond question while trying to determine who gets to sit in the Judge's chair and what they are going to do when they get there.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 06-29-15 at 07:31 PM.
    "We all of us know down here that politics is a tough game. And I don't think there's any point in being Irish if you don't know that the world is going to break your heart eventually."-Daniel Patrick Moynihan, December 5, 1963

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    Re: Cruz: Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage Will Be 'Front And Center' In 2016 Camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Don't you find that incredibly hypocritical considering you're wanting the right to determine the human and civil rights of swaths of the American public?

    They have to explain themselves to you, but be damned if the same is asked of you?
    I'm not asking anyone to explain themselves to me.

    I'm simply stating that I would rather see us elect judges, as we do senators, than have them be lifetime appointed lawyers who decide the fate of 350 million people without those people having a say in who represents them.

    That's all I'm saying. Everything else you are projecting on to me.

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