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Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Actually, if the only reason their wait times are different is because of something like their race, sex, religion, relative races, sexes, or religions, then yes, that is covered under "equal protection".
If the office had a policy in place that clearly resulted in one group having to wait longer, then yes. But if it's just a couple that gets "emotionally damaged" because the clerk that was there to assist them had to tie his shoe, causing them to wait an extra minute, then good luck with your case.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

If the office had a policy in place that clearly resulted in one group having to wait longer, then yes. But if it's just a couple that gets "emotionally damaged" because the clerk that was there to assist them had to tie his shoe, causing them to wait an extra minute, then good luck with your case.

That is absolutely not how the law works. Anyone who refuses to issue a marriage license to any same sex couple who is employed by the state to issue those licenses can be sued and is likely going to lose their case under federal law. They are going to be said to violate the rights of the people involved in the case. This will be an equal protection lawsuit.

We aren't talking about a delay that is due to something mundane, and you know it. We are talking about a refusal by a particular clerk to give a same sex couple a marriage license.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

rule over like how the right wing fanatics are ruling over us on gay rights?

Rule over like I'm the boss and you're the employee.
And what makes you think that fags should have more right then everybody else? It may come as a surprise to you, but no one has an right to get married. Even and in spite of the recent SC ruling.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Maybe you should read it, particularly the last section on Civil Rights. That Act does not protect a person (unless they are operating specifically in the function of a religious entity at that time, which is definitely not the clerk of the court or a judge or JoP) from prosecution when they violate another person's civil rights. In other words, they cannot use their religion as an excuse to discriminate against people.

§ 110.011. CIVIL RIGHTS. (a) Except as provided in
Subsection (b), this chapter does not establish or eliminate a
defense to a civil action or criminal prosecution under a federal or
state civil rights law.
I never claimed it offered such protection, or even considered it. Still, I have no idea how you read that section and concluded that it implies they "cannot use their religion as an excuse to discriminate against people".
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

The Government cannot allow employees to say get screwed I will not do my job because I believe otherwise. What if clerk who are Christian decided they won't issue to Muslims or atheists decide they will not issue to anyone who is getting married in any church or if white clerks would not issue to Asians or Blacks. What if clerks of German decent would not issue to anyone who isn't German. No you suspend the first clerk who does not issue to a gay and the problem is over.
I don't think any of those are examples of sincerely held religious beliefs.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

With respect to the RFA, I believe that the plaintiffs get to pick the venue, so wouldn't "the top" in this instance would be the men and women that the people of Texas have elected to sit on their Supreme Court?

The issue at hand includes a federal law that decrees no same-sex marriage can be banned or denied and whether or not state employees must follow said law . The court battles wouldn't peak at any state's supreme court. They would be appealed to higher federal courts.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

That is absolutely not how the law works. Anyone who refuses to issue a marriage license to any same sex couple who is employed by the state to issue those licenses can be sued and is likely going to lose their case under federal law. They are going to be said to violate the rights of the people involved in the case. This will be an equal protection lawsuit.

We aren't talking about a delay that is due to something mundane, and you know it. We are talking about a refusal by a particular clerk to give a same sex couple a marriage license.
There was a bunch of you making similar claims regarding what was going on in Alabama a few months ago. Guess what? Nobody got fired. Nobody got disbarred. Nobody was held in contempt. Nobody making those claims was looking at the law objectively.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Rule over like I'm the boss and you're the employee.
And what makes you think that fags should have more right then everybody else? It may come as a surprise to you, but no one has an right to get married. Even and in spite of the recent SC ruling.

i hardly need more legal rights than bigots to know i'm above them

thus you will never rule over me
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

The issue at hand includes a federal law that decrees no same-sex marriage can be banned or denied and whether or not state employees must follow said law . The court battles wouldn't peak at any state's supreme court. They would be appealed to higher federal courts.
Well, no - the issue was whether firing employees violated the Texas RFA. It is at the very least a mix of State/Fed law, in which case the State court system is an acceptable venue.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

i hardly need more legal rights than bigots to know i'm above them

thus you will never rule over me

Being terminally unemployed is not being over anyone. Nor is resorting to using worn out talking points.
People like me will always be better than you. It's in our nature. We are stronger, smarter and more resourceful.
You are weak, ill-educated and dependent. The government will always own you because you are too afraid to stand up and fend for yourself.
And, I will own the government. By buying those that hold the offices to which you have surrendered your freedoms.
These are the truths in life. I am the motor that runs the country. You are the highly replaceable gear.

Learn your place.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Well, no - the issue was whether firing employees violated the Texas RFA. It is at the very least a mix of State/Fed law, in which case the State court system is an acceptable venue.

I'm not saying that the State supreme court will not be a venue. It won't be the final say though especially considering that, in theory, enough clerks may choose to exercise this right that would require higher intervention.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Being terminally unemployed is not being over anyone. Nor is resorting to using worn out talking points.
People like me will always be better than you. It's in our nature. We are stronger, smarter and more resourceful.
You are weak, ill-educated and dependent. The government will always own you because you are too afraid to stand up and fend for yourself.
And, I will own the government. By buying those that hold the offices to which you have surrendered your freedoms.
These are the truths in life. I am the motor that runs the country. You are the highly replaceable gear.

Learn your place.

holy ****, i was about to sleep but i think i must be dreaming already. I've never seen so many cheap shots attempted with a blindfold. Well done on your record

you don't know me at all, so don't bother.

yeah you're going to buy the government yet you whine about property taxes. You're well on your way! I've no reason to believe any of your claims, nor do i need to defend my own character as measured against your endless hate of what you'll never understand.

Maybe you can join mike huckabee's march on D.C. to re-create MLK's march in 'defense of freedom.' I'm sure you'll make it all of 5 blocks before your scooter breaks down
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

[
If I was feeling charitable at best, that would be what you are doing.


What "personal prejudices" could you be referring to?

It is assuredly not sound, which is the entire reason for my frustration with this absurd ruling.

Okay, please explain in detail why, despite my clear explanation, you continue to think the decision is not constitutionally sound.

I would ask that you not use rationale's presented in each of the four dissents that the four dissenting Justices felt the need to provide. I add this restriction for the following reasons:

After reading each of the dissenting opinions I found:

1. Justice Robert's argument is primarily based on denying the petition because of a "states compelling interest in preserving the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman." Just like all other proponents of this argument he does not explain factually why this is actually a compelling interest allowing any State to ignore 14th Amendment prohibitions under due process and equal protection for same-sex marriages allowed by law in other states for couples who move to states where it is NOT legal.

2.Scalia's dissent is even more irrational since his argument's start off against use of the 14th Amendment because same-sex marriage was not an issue of "fundamental right" at the time the 14th Amendment was enacted; then goes on to argue that nine Justices are not qualified to make such a constitutional determination before going off on a rant about the flowery verbiage used in the decision. This from a Justice who has voted for quite a few decisions which would be considered "questionable" under his "not qualified" argument.

3. Thomas argues that the Framers would not have accepted same-sex marriage as a liberty to be preserved under the Constitution, because they would never imagine any marriage other than one between and man and woman. Then argues such a decision undermines the right of states to decide this for themselves. Of course he completely disregards the fact that the original drafters also included members who would never imagine slaves as anything other than property, free only if their master manumitted them himself. Or that throughout his term he, like Scalia, had no problem making decisions (like the D.C. v. Heller (2008) and McDonald v. Chicago (2010)) that overturned gun control laws supported by "compelling state interests." (BTW, as a 2nd Amendment advocate I support both those rulings too).

4. Finally, Alito's argument is that since the desire for constitutional protection of the right to same-sex marriage is not "deeply rooted in history," and is "contrary to long-standing tradition" it is undeserving of such protection until it has been democratically decided in each and every state, however long that may take. He does not explain why this must be so other than to argue that the estate of marriage provides legal benefits to encourage "procreative conduct and provide for the children thereof." So, in essence his argument is that unless a right exists for a clear social purpose, it does not deserve protection under the law.

I've heard each of those arguments from fellow citizens and they all appear to be constructs to justify nothing more than prejudice, religious-based or otherwise. I cannot understand such argument because clearly no one is harmed by allowing same-sex marriage; yet people were harmed by denying it.

So I'd like to hear YOUR reason(s) for opposing same sex marriage that stand against the Due Process and Equal Protection clauses of the 14th Amendment.
 
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Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

I never claimed it offered such protection, or even considered it. Still, I have no idea how you read that section and concluded that it implies they "cannot use their religion as an excuse to discriminate against people".

It's right there that it says it. They can't use it as an excuse to discriminate against people.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

There was a bunch of you making similar claims regarding what was going on in Alabama a few months ago. Guess what? Nobody got fired. Nobody got disbarred. Nobody was held in contempt. Nobody making those claims was looking at the law objectively.

You do realize the difference here right? There was a SCOTUS ruling on this. There is no way to act as if this is going to change, as Alabama was attempting. There is nowhere else. They could claim that they were waiting on the SCOTUS ruling for this, despite the fact that they were still in the wrong.

Now, the problem here also is that you are assuming that because that stuff hasn't happened yet, that it can't happen now or even later to those in Alabama. That isn't true either. It is quite possible that the people are working on lawsuits against those who were denying them marriages, monetary lawsuits to address any loss of money they faced for not being married between that time and the SCOTUS ruling.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Well, no - the issue was whether firing employees violated the Texas RFA. It is at the very least a mix of State/Fed law, in which case the State court system is an acceptable venue.

Firing employees for not doing their job does not violate the Texas RFA. They are not being fired for their religious beliefs, and their religious beliefs cannot be used as an excuse to discriminate against people. Now, this doesn't mean that they will be fired, but that they can be if they refuse to issue marriage license for couples. The more likely situation is actually that they will be sued, along with the state, for refusing to issue marriage license to same sex couples.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Your pity is wasted. I am above you in every conceivable sense.
Should your child have children of his own, you should hope that sex at puberty is not legalized. Otherwise, he'll be serviced by strange men in school before he could realize that he doesn't like it.
Or, maybe you find that normal as well. I mean, they thought gay marriage wouldn't happen too. And, look at where we are now.

I'm trying to figure out how SSM relates to legalizing pedophilia. The first involves consenting adults, the second involves children.

It's sort of like saying that because straight marriages are legal, that if she had a daughter she ought to worry about straight men "servicing" that daughter in school before she could realize she doesn't like it.

And why would supporters of SSM be more likely to find that normal than straight people? And if pedophilia or sex with minors is legalized, it will be obviously driven by straight people.

Sounds like you've been listening to Bryan Fischer a bit too much.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

I'm paying too much as it is. Now, I'll probably have to pay to clean up after the hands on segment of gay studies is finished.

So straight up bigotry is how you're demonstrating your intellectual superiority? Any fool can make childish jokes at the expense of others.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Either way, the states in which a girl can get an abortion at any age have in essence stated that they can make that adult decision own their own.
So, how is making the adult decision to get married such a stretch?

Go do some reading on why some states allow minors to get abortions without parental consent, and then start a thread about abortion and the age of consent. This thread is about marriage. They're different subjects with different considerations as it relates to age.

For someone claiming intellectual superiority, contending that age limits for one activity and age limits for another, totally different activity, must be the exact same or else HYPOCRISY, isn't a good approach.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Rule over like I'm the boss and you're the employee.
And what makes you think that fags should have more right then everybody else? It may come as a surprise to you, but no one has an right to get married. Even and in spite of the recent SC ruling.

OK, officially a troll!

BTW, the SC disagrees with you about the right to get married.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

I don't think any of those are examples of sincerely held religious beliefs.

That's part of the problem with those laws. I'm not sure that opposition to SSM is in most cases based on sincerely held religious beliefs rather than animus against gays. If you're a clerk, or just an individual, deeply worried about the sanctity of marriage, and the only marriages that cause you concern are those between same sex couples, then you're probably actually not all that concerned about the sanctity of marriage but instead mostly just don't approve of homosexuals.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

I'm not saying that the State supreme court will not be a venue. It won't be the final say though especially considering that, in theory, enough clerks may choose to exercise this right that would require higher intervention.
The case would be clerk vs State of Texas. If Texas loses, the only way it would go to Federal Court is if the Attorney General (the guy in the OP telling clerks they have this right) were to appeal. Doesn't seem too likely.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

The case would be clerk vs State of Texas. If Texas loses, the only way it would go to Federal Court is if the Attorney General (the guy in the OP telling clerks they have this right) were to appeal. Doesn't seem too likely.

Under the law, the clerk wouldn't have a case, and you better believe that the state of Texas, even with such a lawsuit, would defend themselves to the highest possible extent.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

No, actually they don't. Almost certainly this would be filed under a federal complaint. Likely anyone denied or even just delayed a marriage license would file a federal lawsuit, not a state one. This would put it in federal court. Just like this case was looking at:
Different legal battle. We were discussing the clerk who sues the State for violating its RFA because the employee was terminated for refusing to perform a function contrary to their religious beliefs.

State court.

This is irrelevant.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Doesn't matter where the belief comes from. The belief is there, and sincerely held. This whole "religion is protected" thing is taking the 1st Amendment much farther than it was ever meant to go, and the SCOTUS ruled against such things. You cannot use your religious beliefs to justify breaking the law, discriminating against others, particularly in the performance of your duties as a state/government employee.
The law would not be broken. Everyone would get their license. Everyone wins. Sorry the "some pigs are more equal than others" crowd finds that so frustrating.
 
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