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Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Gaius46 said:
Issuance of marriage licenses is a State responsibility. Some federal benefits are conditioned on being married. For a state to deny a couple the right to marry denies them Federal benefits they'd be otherwise qualified to receive and thus deny them equal protection.
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How is a State denying a couple the right to marry if it doesn't issue licenses to anyone? They can still marry in a church, or they can marry in another State. And why should the State carry the Feds water? If the Feds offer benefits for marriage, they can damn well arrange to marry people. How is this any different from the ACA insurance exchanges that some States refuse to enact?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

tres borrachos said:
If pigs had wings they wouldn't bump their fannies so much.

It's amazing we went from a proposed constitutional amendment banning SSM to actually making them legal in less than a decade.
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Makes you wonder what's next. Mandating a certain percentage of SSM to the real thing?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Hatuey said:
Interesting, I didn't know it was an insult to point out somebody's lack of substance if that's exactly what their post shows... I'm guessing you were expecting a round of applause? I'm sorry to disappoint you. Anyways, their dissenting opinions have not created a constitutional crisis either. The only ones running around like chicken littles with their heads cut off are the same people who would have been doing it if the outcome was anything less than victory for them. By next month, they'll simply be complaining that states have a right to discriminate against citizens based on gender, sexuality. That argument was heard 50 years ago when it concerned race, and it was shot down. The same will happen here. Much ado... :shrug:
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Thank you Justice Hatuey. And I do mean that with the utmost respect. ;)
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Slyfox696 said:
That won't happen...do you really think Christians who have enjoyed their marriage benefits for decades untold will want to live without them? You know, like they demand homosexuals do?

Of course not.

The better answer is to completely detach the religious and the governmental definitions of marriage. If a Christian couple wishes to be married in the church, that's fine, but it holds no governmental benefits until they do it before a judge and the judge cannot hold the marriage ceremony within X feet of a church. This way, there is no discrimination under the law. But, again, this will likely inconvenience and anger Christians, because they sure as hell don't deserve to have to work for their benefits...like they demand of homosexuals...
The problem here is those who oppose gay marriage the most seem not to understand what it would mean if they were discriminated against based on their religion.

I suspect if Christians were to be denied a license to marry simply because they are Christian, they would be outraged (as well they should be, even though religious views are far more of a choice than sexuality).
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I appreciate your answer would be to punish Christians - the left makes a living on carrying that banner. However, if traditionally marriages conducted in churches have been honoured by courts, how would your solution not be punitive and seen as such?

The federal government has offices all over every State so it's quite simple to establish a federal marriage license that will be honoured when doling out federal largesse. No different from any other federal program.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

CanadaJohn said:
How is a State denying a couple the right to marry if it doesn't issue licenses to anyone? They can still marry in a church, or they can marry in another State. And why should the State carry the Feds water? If the Feds offer benefits for marriage, they can damn well arrange to marry people. How is this any different from the ACA insurance exchanges that some States refuse to enact?
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State laws and actions cannot violate constitutional protections. If the state is acting with animus in not issuing marriage licenses to anyone, then by definition that state's actions are clearly unconstitutional and thus unlawful in light of Friday's ruling.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

CanadaJohn said:
How is a State denying a couple the right to marry if it doesn't issue licenses to anyone? They can still marry in a church, or they can marry in another State. And why should the State carry the Feds water? If the Feds offer benefits for marriage, they can damn well arrange to marry people. How is this any different from the ACA insurance exchanges that some States refuse to enact?
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I suppose states could deny licenses to everyone in that state but the 99% or so of straight couples having to travel maybe 5 hours across state lines to get their license probably won't be happy.

But I doubt even that passes legal scrutiny.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

JayDubya said:
The authority of the states and the authority of the people of each state to set policy within their state on those matters in which the U.S. Constitution are silent, per the 10th Amendment, has absolutely been violated.
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Time to get out that Confederate flag again huh. States have no right to discriminate.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Hatuey said:
Interesting, I didn't know it was an insult to point out somebody's lack of substance if that's exactly what their post shows... I'm guessing you were expecting a round of applause? I'm sorry to disappoint you. Anyways, their dissenting opinions have not created a constitutional crisis either. The only ones running around like chicken littles with their heads cut off are the same people who would have been doing it if the outcome was anything less than victory for them. By next month, they'll simply be complaining that states have a right to discriminate against citizens based on gender, sexuality. That argument was heard 50 years ago when it concerned race, and it was shot down. The same will happen here. Much ado... :shrug:
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I suggest you look up "insult" as just about every post you have contains some kind of sneering personal aside. "you must have a reading comprehension problem" gets past the censors but is what it is, a lame comeback and an insult

Try debating for a change
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

ocean515 said:
Thank you Justice Hatuey. And I do mean that with the utmost respect. ;)
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Still nothing? Good. Carry on. :)
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

JasperL said:
I suppose states could deny licenses to everyone in that state but the 99% or so of straight couples having to travel maybe 5 hours across state lines to get their license probably won't be happy.

But I doubt even that passes legal scrutiny.
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It doesn't pass legal scrutiny. If a state denied marriage licenses to everyone in an attempt to avoid issuing same sex marriage licenses, then that state is acting with animus and thus its actions would be unconstitutional.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

iguanaman said:
Time to get out that Confederate flag again huh. States have no right to discriminate.
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Don't know what the **** you're on about.

Don't give a ****, neither.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

roguenuke said:
This is simply going to get the state sued, for monetary amounts, as well as these clerks. If I were them, I'd think about that before they deny any marriage licenses. The SCOTUS is not going to allow this, nor are other federal courts and it will move quickly. This is assuming that Obama and the Justice Department doesn't step in before that time.
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I dont think SCOTUS is going to get involved anytime soon. The Texas attorney general, though obviously condeming the decision,did not state that Texas as a whole would refuse to issue licenses to gays.

Rather, he stated that under Texas law, individual clerks can refuse to issue them. My guess is that all the federal courts, Obama, and the justice departnment will require is that a willing clerk be available.

SouthernDemocrat said:
State laws and actions cannot violate constitutional protections. If the state is acting with animus in not issuing marriage licenses to anyone, then by definition that state's actions are clearly unconstitutional and thus unlawful in light of Friday's ruling.
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Texas as a whole is not refusing to issue marriage licenses to gays. Rather, state law allows individual clerks to decline to issue one. In short, one has the right to a SSM marriage in Texas. One however, does not have the right that the license be issued by a particular clerk.
 
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Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Fearandloathing said:
I suggest you look up "insult" as just about every post you have contains some kind of sneering personal aside.
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Report them, then. However, seeing as I'm still here, a lot of people probably don't agree with your understanding of forum rules and when they're being violated. :shrug:
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

ocean515 said:
At least we both agree on the value of each others posts. :thumbs:
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Mine have substance, yours don't seem to do anything but expose the grouchy little attitude the right developed 30 seconds after the ruling came out. :shrug:
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Hatuey said:
Report them, then. However, seeing as I'm still here, a lot of people probably don't agree with your understanding of forum rules and when they're being violated. :shrug:
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You must have a reading comprehension problem.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

SouthernDemocrat said:
State laws and actions cannot violate constitutional protections. If the state is acting with animus in not issuing marriage licenses to anyone, then by definition that state's actions are clearly unconstitutional and thus unlawful in light of Friday's ruling.
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A State that ceases to issue State paper authorizing marriage isn't violating anyone's constitutional protections and isn't providing discriminatory access to any one group or another - it's simply not in the business any longer. It is not passing any laws prohibiting anyone from getting married.

The Supreme Court determined there was a constitutional right to abortion. Does that mean that States must establish abortion clinics? No. It simply means that States can't bar abortion clinics from establishing operations within the State. Likewise, the State will not bar the federal government or any entity it wishes to create from establishing marriage parlours or marriage license issuing offices within their State.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

CanadaJohn said:
How is a State denying a couple the right to marry if it doesn't issue licenses to anyone? They can still marry in a church, or they can marry in another State. And why should the State carry the Feds water? If the Feds offer benefits for marriage, they can damn well arrange to marry people. How is this any different from the ACA insurance exchanges that some States refuse to enact?
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You need a marriage license issued by the state to get married within that state. You cannot have a legally recognized Church marriage without a state issued marriage license. If a state doesn't issue marriage licenses they deny everyone within the state the right to marry. As far as I know that's the law in every state.

As for residency - a few states have residency requirements but most don't as far as I know. So yes in theory you could go to another state. That would prove to be a huge inconvenience to most people and may it impossible for some.

The way this country does marriage is stupid. States handle the licensing but many benefits derive from the Federal government. It's dumb but it is the way it is. There is no way a state is going to get away with shirking its licensing responsibility. I'd be willing to bed any state that tried would be sued to death by it's own residents.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

JasperL said:
I suppose states could deny licenses to everyone in that state but the 99% or so of straight couples having to travel maybe 5 hours across state lines to get their license probably won't be happy.

But I doubt even that passes legal scrutiny.
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If the constituents of the State don't like it, they can elect new representative government. My point is that States shouldn't look to break the law to oppose it, they should simply remove themselves from the equation.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Fearandloathing said:
You must have a reading comprehension problem.
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Still here? Complaining about imagined insults? Carry on. :)
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Gaius46 said:
You need a marriage license issued by the state to get married within that state. You cannot have a legally recognized Church marriage without a state issued marriage license. If a state doesn't issue marriage licenses they deny everyone within the state the right to marry. As far as I know that's the law in every state.

As for residency - a few states have residency requirements but most don't as far as I know. So yes in theory you could go to another state. That would prove to be a huge inconvenience to most people and may it impossible for some.

The way this country does marriage is stupid. States handle the licensing but many benefits derive from the Federal government. It's dumb but it is the way it is. There is no way a state is going to get away with shirking its licensing responsibility. I'd be willing to bed any state that tried would be sued to death by it's own residents.
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Arguing that you can't do something new because of what currently exists isn't a winning argument. States would simply have to pass legislation removing themselves from the marriage licensing business and eliminating all State tax and other State benefits that accrue to holding that license. That does not impinge on the feds ability to issue licenses or for States to recognize those licenses or licenses from other States for other purposes.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Hatuey said:
Mine have substance, yours don't seem to do anything but expose the grouchy little attitude the right developed 30 seconds after the ruling came out. :shrug:
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Well, no, IMO they don't at all. They just contain absolutes that have no basis in fact, and therefor are just an assemblage of words with no substance or content. Exactly, I guess, how you see my words.

So, we are in agreement!
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Hatuey said:
Mine have substance, yours don't seem to do anything but expose the grouchy little attitude the right developed 30 seconds after the ruling came out. :shrug:
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Show which ones have substance then.

I have never seen a post from you without the word "you"....

Try it, information happens
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

ocean515 said:
Well, no, IMO they don't at all. They just contain absolutes that have no basis in fact, and therefor are just an assemblage of words with no substance or content. Exactly, I guess, how you see my words.

So, we are in agreement!
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Absolutes that have no basis in fact... lmao. I provided no absolutes. I provided examples showing why this isn't the constitutional crisis the chicken littles on the right wish it was. It is a problem that has been dealt with in the past, and will be dealt with again using the same types of solutions. These will include firings and... well more firings. If the religious don't like it, I'm sure there are places of work that don't require them to use and uphold the law. Right? :)
 
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