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Thread: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Or they can rewrite job descriptions and ask, can you complete these tasks as specified if you take this job? They dont have to ask why, the person just has to say that they can or cannot do the job as described.
    Can they? I haven't really looked into this part of it, but would assume that they cannot discriminate against a potential employee simply because that person is unable to perform a particular duty because of their religion.

    In this situation, I'm guessing that the employer would have to prove that hiring the employee would create an undue burden on them. Easy to do if there's one person in the office and therefore that person must be able to perform the duty. Much more difficult if they can simply hand the task over to another employee, or trade duties temporarily.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Can they? I haven't really looked into this part of it, but would assume that they cannot discriminate against a potential employee simply because that person is unable to perform a particular duty because of their religion.

    In this situation, I'm guessing that the employer would have to prove that hiring the employee would create an undue burden on them. Easy to do if there's one person in the office and therefore that person must be able to perform the duty. Much more difficult if they can simply hand the task over to another employee, or trade duties temporarily.
    I've worked for HR and I've worked with Recruiting on job descriptions, etc. They can change them to suit their needs.

    And I wrote that all the interviewer has to ask is IF they can do the tasks listed, not why or why not. Dont you think it's wrong for a person to take a job if they cant, physically or in good conscience, do the job? And then what happens when they (may) become a manager. What if they refuse to assign ANYONE to do those tasks because of their beliefs?
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Great. Never submit your constitutional right. That's the goal, submission.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    We don't look at the other person's point of view. "Undue burden" is a legal term which has been interpreted as a substantial obstable, or a significant difficulty or expense. Having to wait a few extra seconds does not create an undue burden. Having to wait another week, or drive an extra 80 miles to another county would. Exactly how many minutes must one wait before it becomes an undue burden is a gray area, so naturally you would want to minimize the wait (if any).
    Then you can't say that having to wait a few extra seconds or minutes isn't an undue burden. It is subjective.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Don't you think it's wrong for a person to take a job if they cant, physically or in good conscience, do the job?
    Absolutely not.

    If the only thing standing in the way of an otherwise qualified applicant is a few changes to how things are done, I don't think it's "wrong" at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And I wrote that all the interviewer has to ask is IF they can do the tasks listed, not why or why not
    You're probably on to something here, I used to interview people with disabilities as part of a research program and have heard many stories about how companies get creative in eliminating them from the selection process.

    So long as the other guy is acting "in good conscience," eh?

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Farley View Post
    Great. Never submit your constitutional right. That's the goal, submission.
    You have a constitutional right to your job?

    If you have a job, you have a job description, can you do what is in the description?
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Absolutely not.

    If the only thing standing in the way of an otherwise qualified applicant is a few changes to how things are done, I don't think it's "wrong" at all.
    Well the business owner that has to pay them may feel differently. Esp. since these days there are many people looking for work and it's not like county clerks and administrators are highly skilled positions. If there are candidates willing to do the entire job as described, why hire someone who wont?

    If you are not honest when asked if you can do the entire job as listed...hm, isnt that a sin as well? It is justification for firing tho in many cases.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post

    You're probably on to something here, I used to interview people with disabilities as part of a research program and have heard many stories about how companies get creative in eliminating them from the selection process.

    So long as the other guy is acting "in good conscience," eh?
    There are tons of guidelines and restrictions about what interviewers can and cannot ask potential candidates. Nothing dishonest or underhanded about it.

    What's wrong with asking a candidate if they can do the job as laid out in the job description? They shouldnt even be there if they cant, or at least not be considered over someone who can. The 'reason' shouldnt need to enter into it and in many cases, isnt legal for the interviewer to ask. Like, can you be around certain chemicals we use or are you pregnant? Stuff like that. It would just be, are you able to work around certain chemicals? Yes or no.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Well the business owner that has to pay them may feel differently. Esp. since these days there are many people looking for work and it's not like county clerks and administrators are highly skilled positions. If there are candidates willing to do the entire job as described, why hire someone who wont?

    If you are not honest when asked if you can do the entire job as listed...hm, isnt that a sin as well? It is justification for firing tho in many cases.
    It has to do with reasonable accommodation, I've been in HR for years, way back when I worked in the airlines, we had a FA who said she couldn't serve alcohol on the plane because of her religion, aside from the fact that when she was hired, her job description which specifically stated serving alcohol (which she signed and dated), a reasonable accommodation could not be made, she could work on a small plane that only has one attendant, or in First Class, etc.

    The clerk's job is to do their job, including issuing marriage licenses. If they can't do that, too bad.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    It has to do with reasonable accommodation, I've been in HR for years, way back when I worked in the airlines, we had a FA who said she couldn't serve alcohol on the plane because of her religion, aside from the fact that when she was hired, her job description which specifically stated serving alcohol (which she signed and dated), a reasonable accommodation could not be made, she could work on a small plane that only has one attendant, or in First Class, etc.

    The clerk's job is to do their job, including issuing marriage licenses. If they can't do that, too bad.
    Yes, and as your last sentence expresses, that's the bottom line, or will be.

    There is nothing wrong with the common practice of asking a candidate if they can do the job...all the job...and not inquiring why. If the interviewer likes the person enough and the organization or business owner's guidelines allow it, they can indeed make reasonable accommodations.

    But because there are so many things that employers are legally not allowed to ask, HR depts have developed their own strategies to elicit or discover information.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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