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Thread: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

  1. #491
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    another lie that will never be true and that no topically educated person will ever take seriously. lol
    also marriage wasnt redefined thats another failed sound-byte that just gets mocked

    remind us again how many states also banned civil unions AND domestic partnerships and some even went as far as any contracts between two homosexuals that reassembled marriage in any way. (just as many that tried to infringing on equal rights and ban marriage)

    remind us when that first happened also (1970 for marriage and then in 2000 for civil unions and domestic partnerships once gays started trying for those)

    remind us how you make civil unions = to marriage since that impossible.

    sorry your claim is factually false and facts win again
    If you ever had any facts, you might have a point.

    In a way, you did get one thing right, bad SCOTUS decisions will not turn SSM into the real thing.

  2. #492
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Doesn't matter where the belief comes from. The belief is there, and sincerely held. This whole "religion is protected" thing is taking the 1st Amendment much farther than it was ever meant to go, and the SCOTUS ruled against such things. You cannot use your religious beliefs to justify breaking the law, discriminating against others, particularly in the performance of your duties as a state/government employee.
    Yet that is exactly what they are trying to do, but it's only acceptable when they do it. If a Muslim comes by and says their religion orders them to kill the infidels, their religious freedom gets curtailed immediately.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #493
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    1.)If you ever had any facts, you might have a point.
    2.)In a way, you did get one thing right, bad SCOTUS decisions will not turn SSM into the real thing.
    1.) translation: you cant provide ONE fact that supports the lie you posted. thanks but we knew that
    2.) its been real, now its just gaining towards national legalization, that too is also a fact that you cant change
    your post fails and facts win again

    oh yeh please let us know when you can support that false claim you made. we'd love to read it, thanks
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  4. #494
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    So straight up bigotry is how you're demonstrating your intellectual superiority? Any fool can make childish jokes at the expense of others.
    He's a troll, stop feeding him.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    They'll simply replace Bob. That's almost too easy to work around.
    Which would be fine but now Bob can sue for religious discrimination because you replaced him. We live in a hyper-litigious society after all.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    If your time is too valuable, then there is no way you would be happy about someone wasting it in delaying in because of their problems with something about you, like your race, sex, religion, spouse, etc.
    A few seconds, a minute or two, versus months or years of legal battles and all of the emotion that goes along with that? For me, it's an easy decision, but I have the benefit of having suffered through several lawsuits already.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Oh, I guarantee you that my skin is much too thick, and my time much too valuable to be wasted on lawsuits everytime someone didn't treat
    me the exact same way they treat others.
    But there's a lot of people out there who aren't and there are far too many shyster lawyers who will take on discrimination cases, hoping for a big payday.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Being a clerk has a job description in this case it is issuing marriage licenses it would be difficult to change this. Better that the people change jobs, get suspended, or be terminated. The job they are holding has nothing to do with religion and they work for the government which is a non discriminatory non religious employer. A persons personal religious views really don't matter in this case.
    No, it's not at all difficult. Have everyone sign in upon entering. Assign people to a particular window, or give them a number for the clerk to call. Clerks issue licenses to whoever comes to their window, or to all numbers to which they've been assigned. Done.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Yes, I think we agree on this. Something like coming back the next day, having to drive to a different office, or going to a dedicated line for same sex marriages would likely not pass muster given the recent ruling.


    Yes, and this is where it gets difficult. I certainly don't have a religious belief that would preclude me from issuing a marriage license, but also don't feel comfortable in saying that those who claim to are being insincere. And, certainly we don't want to put the government in the position of having to determine which beliefs are or are not valid.

    I suppose that my position is that compelling people to issue licenses by threatening their jobs is probably not the best solution if there is a way to ensure that those who need licenses get them without undue burden, while enabling the religious objector to maintain their job.
    Sherbert v. Verner seems to apply here. The RFRA states that its primary purpose is to restore the compelling interest standard the Court used in Sherbert. The case concerned a Seventh-Day Adventist who was fired because she would not work on Saturdays, and then denied unemployment benefits by the state. The Court made clear that government action which forces a person to abandon a religious belief to get work violates the First Amendment, unless the government can prove it serves a "compelling interest."

    "[N]ot only is it apparent that appellant's declared ineligibility for benefits derives solely from the practice of her religion, but the pressure upon her to forego that practice is unmistakable. The ruling forces her to choose between following the precepts of her religion and forfeiting benefits, on the one hand, and abandoning one of the precepts of her religion in order to accept work, on the other hand. Governmental imposition of such a choice puts the same kind of burden upon the free exercise of religion as would a fine imposed against appellant for her Saturday worship."

    Texas has an RFRA, as do quite a few other states, and I doubt those laws allow government employees to be forced to abandon the precepts of their religion as the price of keeping their jobs. But I would like to see states go much further yet. As Justice Scalia pointedly noted, the Court has no power to enforce its judgments. I hope that any state where a majority disapproves of same-sex marriage will refuse to comply with Obergefell's flagrantly lawless command. I'd like to see this equally lawless president try to order troops into a dozen states to force them to obey an unconstitutional dictate which deserves no one's respect, and which is a vile insult to democracy.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    No, it's not at all difficult. Have everyone sign in upon entering. Assign people to a particular window, or give them a number for the clerk to call. Clerks issue licenses to whoever comes to their window, or to all numbers to which they've been assigned. Done.
    As I've said, this isn't what happens or is necessary in many county clerks offices. We were the only ones in the office besides the clerk the whole 20/30 minutes it took to get our license typed up. One person was there. What if that person had not approved of our marriage on religious grounds? Why should we have had to delay our plans (which would have cut into my leave period) just because someone had wanted to refuse to do their job?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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