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Thread: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

  1. #451
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Different legal battle. We were discussing the clerk who sues the State for violating its RFA because the employee was terminated for refusing to perform a function contrary to their religious beliefs.

    State court.

    This is irrelevant.
    That judge would have just as much defense as any of the clerks if they refuse to do their job due to their claimed religious beliefs, particularly if any of those clerks are found to be against marriage after divorce, interfaith marriages, or other such relationships.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That is absolutely not how the law works. Anyone who refuses to issue a marriage license to any same sex couple who is employed by the state to issue those licenses can be sued and is likely going to lose their case under federal law. They are going to be said to violate the rights of the people involved in the case. This will be an equal protection lawsuit.

    We aren't talking about a delay that is due to something mundane, and you know it. We are talking about a refusal by a particular clerk to give a same sex couple a marriage license.
    You have a right to a marriage license, not a right to force Bob to issue a marriage license to you.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    The law would not be broken. Everyone would get their license. Everyone wins. Sorry the "some pigs are more equal than others" crowd finds that so frustrating.
    The law would be broken. You cannot discriminate against people, prevent them from getting a marriage license, which is part of your job, because of your religious objections. It still violates US laws, equal protection. You are an employee of the state, a representative of the state.

    It doesn't matter which group of people someone is trying to deny a marriage license to so long as they are legally allowed to enter into a marriage with each other. That is their job. They would be fired for refusing to do their job, which is not legitimately imposing on your religious beliefs, unless you allow it do so. If someone doesn't believe that they can now perform their job, issue marriage licenses without discriminating to everyone, then they need to find another job now.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #454
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    You have a right to a marriage license, not a right to force Bob to issue a marriage license to you.
    They'll simply replace Bob. That's almost too easy to work around.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by keymanjim View Post
    I already did that. You're just feeling the D-K effect.
    You did nothing of the sort. Not a single link or reference was provided.
    My views are my views, then there is the Christian view:
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Of course the third world dregs are breeding like rabbits.

  6. #456
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You do realize the difference here right? There was a SCOTUS ruling on this. There is no way to act as if this is going to change, as Alabama was attempting. There is nowhere else. They could claim that they were waiting on the SCOTUS ruling for this, despite the fact that they were still in the wrong.
    SCOTUS ruled on whether a State could legally reject same sex couples seeking marriage licenses. They did not rule on whether Bob the Clerk would be forced to issue the license when Barbara, Betty, and Bo were willing to do so.

    Now, the problem here also is that you are assuming that because that stuff hasn't happened yet, that it can't happen now or even later to those in Alabama. That isn't true either. It is quite possible that the people are working on lawsuits against those who were denying them marriages, monetary lawsuits to address any loss of money they faced for not being married between that time and the SCOTUS ruling.
    I won't hold my breath, and you shouldn't either. Of course, I have the benefit of understanding how legal precedent works.

  7. #457
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    You have a right to a marriage license, not a right to force Bob to issue a marriage license to you.
    If Bob's job is to issue marriage licenses, then yes, we do have a right to force him to do his job as long as he is getting paid for doing that job. And he has to do it in accordance with laws, impartially.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's part of the problem with those laws. I'm not sure that opposition to SSM is in most cases based on sincerely held religious beliefs rather than animus against gays. If you're a clerk, or just an individual, deeply worried about the sanctity of marriage, and the only marriages that cause you concern are those between same sex couples, then you're probably actually not all that concerned about the sanctity of marriage but instead mostly just don't approve of homosexuals.
    I think that's a valid concern, and hopefully one that the court system is equipped to handle when deciding such cases.

  9. #459
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    SCOTUS ruled on whether a State could legally reject same sex couples seeking marriage licenses. They did not rule on whether Bob the Clerk would be forced to issue the license when Barbara, Betty, and Bo were willing to do so.

    I won't hold my breath, and you shouldn't either. Of course, I have the benefit of understanding how legal precedent works.
    I understand legal precedent just fine. There is no legal precedent that allows court clerks to refuse to do their job in a way that discriminates against groups of people on the basis of their religious objections.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #460
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Firing employees for not doing their job does not violate the Texas RFA. They are not being fired for their religious beliefs, and their religious beliefs cannot be used as an excuse to discriminate against people. Now, this doesn't mean that they will be fired, but that they can be if they refuse to issue marriage license for couples. The more likely situation is actually that they will be sued, along with the state, for refusing to issue marriage license to same sex couples.
    I'll bet that if they're sued, it's more likely the result of animus rather than any sincerely felt "emotional damage".

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