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Thread: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

  1. #431
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    With respect to the RFA, I believe that the plaintiffs get to pick the venue, so wouldn't "the top" in this instance would be the men and women that the people of Texas have elected to sit on their Supreme Court?
    The issue at hand includes a federal law that decrees no same-sex marriage can be banned or denied and whether or not state employees must follow said law . The court battles wouldn't peak at any state's supreme court. They would be appealed to higher federal courts.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That is absolutely not how the law works. Anyone who refuses to issue a marriage license to any same sex couple who is employed by the state to issue those licenses can be sued and is likely going to lose their case under federal law. They are going to be said to violate the rights of the people involved in the case. This will be an equal protection lawsuit.

    We aren't talking about a delay that is due to something mundane, and you know it. We are talking about a refusal by a particular clerk to give a same sex couple a marriage license.
    There was a bunch of you making similar claims regarding what was going on in Alabama a few months ago. Guess what? Nobody got fired. Nobody got disbarred. Nobody was held in contempt. Nobody making those claims was looking at the law objectively.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by keymanjim View Post
    Rule over like I'm the boss and you're the employee.
    And what makes you think that fags should have more right then everybody else? It may come as a surprise to you, but no one has an right to get married. Even and in spite of the recent SC ruling.
    i hardly need more legal rights than bigots to know i'm above them

    thus you will never rule over me

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    The issue at hand includes a federal law that decrees no same-sex marriage can be banned or denied and whether or not state employees must follow said law . The court battles wouldn't peak at any state's supreme court. They would be appealed to higher federal courts.
    Well, no - the issue was whether firing employees violated the Texas RFA. It is at the very least a mix of State/Fed law, in which case the State court system is an acceptable venue.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    i hardly need more legal rights than bigots to know i'm above them

    thus you will never rule over me
    Being terminally unemployed is not being over anyone. Nor is resorting to using worn out talking points.
    People like me will always be better than you. It's in our nature. We are stronger, smarter and more resourceful.
    You are weak, ill-educated and dependent. The government will always own you because you are too afraid to stand up and fend for yourself.
    And, I will own the government. By buying those that hold the offices to which you have surrendered your freedoms.
    These are the truths in life. I am the motor that runs the country. You are the highly replaceable gear.

    Learn your place.
    11 Liberal Rules for Racism in America
    それは残念だよね?
    Obama is a clown in blackface. Oops! I misspoke. My bad.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Well, no - the issue was whether firing employees violated the Texas RFA. It is at the very least a mix of State/Fed law, in which case the State court system is an acceptable venue.
    I'm not saying that the State supreme court will not be a venue. It won't be the final say though especially considering that, in theory, enough clerks may choose to exercise this right that would require higher intervention.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by keymanjim View Post
    Being terminally unemployed is not being over anyone. Nor is resorting to using worn out talking points.
    People like me will always be better than you. It's in our nature. We are stronger, smarter and more resourceful.
    You are weak, ill-educated and dependent. The government will always own you because you are too afraid to stand up and fend for yourself.
    And, I will own the government. By buying those that hold the offices to which you have surrendered your freedoms.
    These are the truths in life. I am the motor that runs the country. You are the highly replaceable gear.

    Learn your place.
    holy ****, i was about to sleep but i think i must be dreaming already. I've never seen so many cheap shots attempted with a blindfold. Well done on your record

    you don't know me at all, so don't bother.

    yeah you're going to buy the government yet you whine about property taxes. You're well on your way! I've no reason to believe any of your claims, nor do i need to defend my own character as measured against your endless hate of what you'll never understand.

    Maybe you can join mike huckabee's march on D.C. to re-create MLK's march in 'defense of freedom.' I'm sure you'll make it all of 5 blocks before your scooter breaks down

  8. #438
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    [
    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    If I was feeling charitable at best, that would be what you are doing.


    What "personal prejudices" could you be referring to?

    It is assuredly not sound, which is the entire reason for my frustration with this absurd ruling.
    Okay, please explain in detail why, despite my clear explanation, you continue to think the decision is not constitutionally sound.

    I would ask that you not use rationale's presented in each of the four dissents that the four dissenting Justices felt the need to provide. I add this restriction for the following reasons:

    After reading each of the dissenting opinions I found:

    1. Justice Robert's argument is primarily based on denying the petition because of a "states compelling interest in preserving the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman." Just like all other proponents of this argument he does not explain factually why this is actually a compelling interest allowing any State to ignore 14th Amendment prohibitions under due process and equal protection for same-sex marriages allowed by law in other states for couples who move to states where it is NOT legal.

    2.Scalia's dissent is even more irrational since his argument's start off against use of the 14th Amendment because same-sex marriage was not an issue of "fundamental right" at the time the 14th Amendment was enacted; then goes on to argue that nine Justices are not qualified to make such a constitutional determination before going off on a rant about the flowery verbiage used in the decision. This from a Justice who has voted for quite a few decisions which would be considered "questionable" under his "not qualified" argument.

    3. Thomas argues that the Framers would not have accepted same-sex marriage as a liberty to be preserved under the Constitution, because they would never imagine any marriage other than one between and man and woman. Then argues such a decision undermines the right of states to decide this for themselves. Of course he completely disregards the fact that the original drafters also included members who would never imagine slaves as anything other than property, free only if their master manumitted them himself. Or that throughout his term he, like Scalia, had no problem making decisions (like the D.C. v. Heller (2008) and McDonald v. Chicago (2010)) that overturned gun control laws supported by "compelling state interests." (BTW, as a 2nd Amendment advocate I support both those rulings too).

    4. Finally, Alito's argument is that since the desire for constitutional protection of the right to same-sex marriage is not "deeply rooted in history," and is "contrary to long-standing tradition" it is undeserving of such protection until it has been democratically decided in each and every state, however long that may take. He does not explain why this must be so other than to argue that the estate of marriage provides legal benefits to encourage "procreative conduct and provide for the children thereof." So, in essence his argument is that unless a right exists for a clear social purpose, it does not deserve protection under the law.

    I've heard each of those arguments from fellow citizens and they all appear to be constructs to justify nothing more than prejudice, religious-based or otherwise. I cannot understand such argument because clearly no one is harmed by allowing same-sex marriage; yet people were harmed by denying it.

    So I'd like to hear YOUR reason(s) for opposing same sex marriage that stand against the Due Process and Equal Protection clauses of the 14th Amendment.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 06-30-15 at 04:23 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  9. #439
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I never claimed it offered such protection, or even considered it. Still, I have no idea how you read that section and concluded that it implies they "cannot use their religion as an excuse to discriminate against people".
    It's right there that it says it. They can't use it as an excuse to discriminate against people.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #440
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    There was a bunch of you making similar claims regarding what was going on in Alabama a few months ago. Guess what? Nobody got fired. Nobody got disbarred. Nobody was held in contempt. Nobody making those claims was looking at the law objectively.
    You do realize the difference here right? There was a SCOTUS ruling on this. There is no way to act as if this is going to change, as Alabama was attempting. There is nowhere else. They could claim that they were waiting on the SCOTUS ruling for this, despite the fact that they were still in the wrong.

    Now, the problem here also is that you are assuming that because that stuff hasn't happened yet, that it can't happen now or even later to those in Alabama. That isn't true either. It is quite possible that the people are working on lawsuits against those who were denying them marriages, monetary lawsuits to address any loss of money they faced for not being married between that time and the SCOTUS ruling.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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