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Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Deuce said:
Unequal protection under the law is a power specifically prohibited.
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Except the courts protect it all the time. :lamo
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

reinoe said:
No, the Supreme court has not defined marriage.
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How did it not just redefine marriage?

I'm just going to add this group to the pool and by magic not redefine anything. Sure..
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

roguenuke said:
This is simply going to get the state sued, for monetary amounts, as well as these clerks. If I were them, I'd think about that before they deny any marriage licenses. The SCOTUS is not going to allow this, nor are other federal courts and it will move quickly. This is assuming that Obama and the Justice Department doesn't step in before that time.
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In other words, "you veel comply, or else you veel suffer ze consequences". First Amendment be damned. Zeig Heil!
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

katiegrrl0 said:
[h=1]Paxton: State workers can deny licenses to same-sex couples[/h]
Here we go the first actual decent from the Joy. I think this is doomed before it starts. There is no end to hate and judgement IMO. Thoughts.
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Kind of symbolic and certainly silly - but a piece of red-meat for the mega-church base in the Dallas and Houston suburbs to chew on and remember their governor by. I gotta say, though, Texas is becoming rather schizophrenic and reactionary for a place that certain people thought they could "turn blue" last November.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Henrin said:
How did it not just redefine marriage?

I'm just going to add this group to the pool and by magic not redefine anything. Sure..
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When was marriage ever defined in the first place? Is it between a man and his slave? Is it between a man and harem of women? Is it between a man and his sister? Is it between a man and his daughter?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

roguenuke said:
The 1st Amendment does not protect them from not having to do their job, which is to issue marriage licenses or perform marriages. If they can't do that for all, without discriminating, then they need to find a new job. Just like this guy did.

Louisiana justice who refused interracial marriage resigns - CNN.com
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that judge can do what he wants. the constitution says that the government cannot force them or discriminate against their religious views.
the state has to make reasonable accommodations. the SCOTUS has ruled on this time and time again.

that is that guy and his choice. you can't force others to do it based on the constitution.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Eddie_V said:
Kind of symbolic and certainly silly - but a piece of red-meat for the mega-church base in the Dallas and Houston suburbs to chew on and remember their governor by. I gotta say, though, Texas is becoming rather schizophrenic and reactionary for a place that certain people thought they could "turn blue" last November.
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This is true. This is a gesture for whatever reason. Maybe trying to show the conservative side what they are made of. SCOTUS is the winner in this before it starts. It will be interesting to see how far it goes. I suppose if one employee turns you down you move to the next line and get your license there. lol The longest line is the one selling same sex marriage licenses.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Henrin said:
How did it not just redefine marriage?

I'm just going to add this group to the pool and by magic not redefine anything. Sure..
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Did interracial marriage redefine marriage? Did overturning laws that declared the wife to be subservient to the husband redefine marriage?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

roguenuke said:
You don't need permission to be with someone or be involved in a private marriage. You do need "permission" or rather recognition though if you want benefits, rights, protections for that legal kinship.
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Why should the government have ever been put in charge of deciding whether you get to enter a contract with someone else or not?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

countryboy said:
In other words, "you veel comply, or else you veel suffer ze consequences". First Amendment be damned. Zeig Heil!
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Riiight. Requiring that employees do their job is basically Nazi Germany!

I'm so glad you woke me up to this religious freedom of mine. I'm going to tell my boss tomorrow that I have the religious right to not do my job, and still get paid!
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

WSUwarrior said:
Why should the government have ever been put in charge of deciding whether you get to enter a contract with someone else or not?
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You're right. Anyone should be able to marry anyone.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

JayDubya said:
And nothing whatsoever prohibits each state from defining what contracts within it are legally valid.
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Actually you are not only reading selectively, but misinterpreting what you are reading.

Reread the parts of the 14th Amendment I underlined. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; and nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Marriage licenses grant all the privileges and immunities identified as belonging to a married couple. These include, but are not limited to, hospital visitation access; medical decisions including the right to instruct medical personnel to "pull the plug" on a dying comatose spouse; the right to make funeral arrangements; status under legal inheritance laws; shared property rights; child adoption; joint bank accounts; health insurance; life insurance; social security survivor benefits; divorce options; alimony; and on, and on.

By enacting laws which denied all the privileges and immunities of marriage to same-sex couples permitted by other State's laws to be legally married, states where it was NOT legal have violated the first section of the 14th Amendment underlined.

Furthermore, if opposite-sexed marriages are held legally binding in all states regardless of where the marriage took place in the USA, while same-sex marriages are NOT, then by denying to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws, the second portion of the 14th Amendment has been violated.

I am aware that you are blinded by your personal prejudices, but the SCOTUS decision is Constitutionally sound.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

reinoe said:
When was marriage ever defined in the first place? Is it between a man and his slave? Is it between a man and harem of women? Is it between a man and his sister? Is it between a man and his daughter?
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There is a thread currently active where you can talk about this fallacy.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

countryboy said:
In other words, "you veel comply, or else you veel suffer ze consequences". First Amendment be damned. Zeig Heil!
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Why shouldn't one have to follow the law when they are getting paid by legal tax paying citizens? Just like a Rastafarian would working at Mcdonalds serving white people.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Deuce said:
Did interracial marriage redefine marriage? Did overturning laws that declared the wife to be subservient to the husband redefine marriage?
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Lets not be dumb and pretend you can add an entirely new kind of relationship to the mix and not redefine marriage.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

winston53660 said:
Why shouldn't one have to follow the law when they are getting paid by legal tax paying citizens? Just like a Rastafarian would working at Mcdonalds serving white people.
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The government is their employer, so at worst they should be fired. Why send the law after them for failing to do their job?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Captain Adverse said:
The article also states "He warned in a statement Sunday that any clerk, justice of the peace or other administrator who declines to issue a license to a same-sex couple could face litigation or a fine."

It goes on to state that if this happens he has a group of lawyers who will represent the state worker for free. While Texas courts MIGHT rule in favor of the defendant's, I wonder how effective this would be when the U.S. Attorney General's office begins proceedings in Federal Courts under civil rights violations...the same method used to break the racial codes in the old South during the civil rights movement.

I am amazed at the levels of hate demonstrated by people over a ruling that has absolutely NO EFFECT on the "sanctity" of their own marriages. No one's rights have been violated, and no religion is required to sanction marital ceremonies. All that has happened is that an oppressed minority has had another level of oppression removed from their inherent liberties.
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This seems like a reaction born of fear that the conservative hold is not as tight as it was and they are losing their battle. Hate has no limits I gather.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

WSUwarrior said:
Why should the government have ever been put in charge of deciding whether you get to enter a contract with someone else or not?
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Pretty much because warloards, kings, queens, czars, emperors, etc birthright crap are not in control and hopefully we all have equality under the law.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Henrin said:
Lets not be dumb and pretend you can add an entirely new kind of relationship to the mix and not redefine marriage.
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Wasn't interracial marriage an entirely new kind of relationship?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Henrin said:
The government is their employer, so at worst they should be fired. Why send the law after them for failing to do their job?
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Where did you get the idea that the law would be "sent after them," other than being fired?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Moon said:
Now we get to see if a SCOTUS decision to expand one group's rights actually trumps an enumerated right that has been protected since the 1st amendment was created. This is when things get interesting.
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well since theres no rights being trumped theres nothing interesting to see at all
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Henrin said:
How did it not just redefine marriage?

I'm just going to add this group to the pool and by magic not redefine anything. Sure..
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The Supreme Court did not define marriage, it held that if a state is going to define marriage as a union between two consenting adults, then it can not limit that definition simply on the grounds that the two people are of the same sex. Nuanced, I am sure, and if you want to claim that we are debating semantics, I would tend to agree.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Henrin said:
The government is their employer, so at worst they should be fired. Why send the law after them for failing to do their job?
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Hold on here do you think I think they should face some kind of criminal penalty? Because I certainly don't think that.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

MrT said:
The Supreme Court did not define marriage, it held that if a state is going to define marriage as a union between two consenting adults, then it can not limit that definition simply on the grounds that the two people are of the same sex. Nuanced, I am sure, and if you want to claim that we are debating semantics, I would tend to agree.
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That isn't even semantics, but just a fancy way of getting around the fact they are redefining marriage. I do however like their efforts with word play even if it fails horribly.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

digsbe said:
They need to face the fact it's legal and do their job to serve citizens under the law. If I was their boss or the governor I'd demand they issue the marriage certificates or be fired. It's just an expensive lawsuit waiting to happen.
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Being fired for not doing their job because the AG says you don't have to would be difficult. The Governor should deal harshly with the AG unless he supports this.
 
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