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Thread: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

  1. #231
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Congratulations on referring to a video which said exactly what I said, which is the definition provided in opposition is a religious one. Thank you for proving my point.

    By the way, it's good to see you agree with Obama that homosexuals should be granted equal rights under the law, regardless of what he personally agrees with. I guess this makes you a liberal now?

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    So let someone prove it in court. The argument I would make is that the Supreme Court has decided to open up the long standing legal definition of marriage and mandate its broadening across the country so, therefore, we as State x have decided to get out of the way and allow for the broadening and availability of marriage to anyone and everyone who chooses that path. We will no longer set up restrictions and regulations, bylaws and fees, and simply recognize any coupling that comes our way. How can that be punitive?
    What you're ignoring is the many ways being married or not affects our legal rights and responsibilities. They could open it up and say that 28 year old men can marry 4 year olds....

  3. #233
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Umm...who is punishing Christians? I didn't say anything about that, please re-read again.

    How is removing government benefits from religious ceremonies punitive, especially given the complaints Christians have been lodging about it?

    Again, please re-read my post again. I feel as if you completely misunderstood what was said.
    Not surprising...most definitions provided by those opposed to same sex marriage generally violate the first amendment and they know it.
    I took your comments the only reasonable way they could be taken. You recommended that Christians who typically, for the most part, marry in their church - a ceremony that has been recognized by governments for your country's entire history and longer - should be penalized and have to also get a State sponsored ceremony/marriage if they wish to have the State recognize it. That's punitive and spiteful.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  4. #234
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    What you're ignoring is the many ways being married or not affects our legal rights and responsibilities. They could open it up and say that 28 year old men can marry 4 year olds....
    I think that is a bit of hyperbole. There are state and federal laws protecting children.

    However, it is possible for a state to blackmail a religious organization who refuses to break from religious teachings by refusing to marry same sex couples. In fact, Churches have been at the "mercy" of the state in the whole process.

    The government does not recognize marriages that result from church weddings per se. They grant the Priest/Rabbi/Minister authority to take on the role of a legal authority having jurisdiction. That is why someone must get a marriage license before they have a church wedding. Without the license, no wedding, no matter how many "I do's" are involved.

    So a state can decide they don't like the stand a church is taking, so it outlaws recognition of any wedding performed in a church. Everyone would have to get married in a civil ceremony presided over by a judge or similar authority. The church part could only be a celebration, or confirmation.

    Far fetched. Probably. But in this punitive time in society where anything goes, perhaps not.
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  5. #235
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Congratulations on referring to a video which said exactly what I said, which is the definition provided in opposition is a religious one. Thank you for proving my point.

    By the way, it's good to see you agree with Obama that homosexuals should be granted equal rights under the law, regardless of what he personally agrees with. I guess this makes you a liberal now?
    I never said I was opposed to equal protection under the law. This was strictly in response to the definition of marriage which you and others were chiding me about. I'm glad you agree with me and the old lying Obama before political expedience took over, that marriage is between a man and a woman.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by keymanjim View Post
    Are there any circumstances in which the state can deny a person a gun license, in violation of the very real right enumerated in the 2nd Amendment, without them having broken any laws?
    How about history of serious mental illness? Not a crime to be sick, but also not a person that should be handling firearms.
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  7. #237
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The problem is the state can't (realistically in this reality in 2015) get completely out of that business. It will have dozens or hundreds of laws that distinguish between a married person and a single person having to do with all kinds of contract rights and responsibilities, debt, child rearing, divorce, etc. And even if Texas repeals ALL its laws, the married couple in Texas will travel to other states with those laws. And so it will have to define the qualifications for "marriage" and who is legally allowed to perform them, and the rights of each party when that marriage terminates, and how a couple goes about doing that. The "free market" doesn't make laws and so cannot assume those functions.

    Let's say the state delegates that responsibility to Koch Enterprises - gives them a contract or permission to issue those licenses. A condition of that contract or that permission to grant marriage licenses with Koch has to be that the private firm issue licenses in accordance with all applicable laws, which will require them to issue them to all qualified couples, including SSMs. They can't get around the legal obligation by assigning their duties to a third party.
    Firstly, if there are "hundreds of laws that distinguish between a married person and a single person" then those laws are on their face discrimination based on marital status and a State should not be in the business of sanctioning discrimination. Why should a married person have greater or different rights and access than a single person?

    Secondly, if the State is out of the marriage business, you can bet there will be a booming business in attorneys advising and drafting marriage contracts - likely the same attorneys who practice divorce and family law since they're the ones who are intimately knowledgeable about the flaws in the State's marriage contracts.

    Finally, if the State government is out of the marriage business, they wouldn't be contracting any third parties to perform marriages or dissolve marriages or adjudicate disputes - the courts will do that - or in all likelihood, the feds may step in since they and the Supreme Court decided they know best - let them have the mess.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I took your comments the only reasonable way they could be taken. You recommended that Christians who typically, for the most part, marry in their church - a ceremony that has been recognized by governments for your country's entire history and longer - should be penalized and have to also get a State sponsored ceremony/marriage if they wish to have the State recognize it. That's punitive and spiteful.
    State sponsored ceremony?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Well, certainly the customer is not an N-word.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
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  9. #239
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Firstly, if there are "hundreds of laws that distinguish between a married person and a single person" then those laws are on their face discrimination based on marital status and a State should not be in the business of sanctioning discrimination. Why should a married person have greater or different rights and access than a single person?

    Secondly, if the State is out of the marriage business, you can bet there will be a booming business in attorneys advising and drafting marriage contracts - likely the same attorneys who practice divorce and family law since they're the ones who are intimately knowledgeable about the flaws in the State's marriage contracts.

    Finally, if the State government is out of the marriage business, they wouldn't be contracting any third parties to perform marriages or dissolve marriages or adjudicate disputes - the courts will do that - or in all likelihood, the feds may step in since they and the Supreme Court decided they know best - let them have the mess.
    Th state can't make any discrimination for any reason? Why not?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Well, certainly the customer is not an N-word.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You know her?

  10. #240
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I took your comments the only reasonable way they could be taken. You recommended that Christians who typically, for the most part, marry in their church - a ceremony that has been recognized by governments for your country's entire history and longer - should be penalized and have to also get a State sponsored ceremony/marriage if they wish to have the State recognize it. That's punitive and spiteful.
    I don't know how it works anywhere else, but we had a church wedding and applied for the license with the state who checked our qualifications for marriage and issued the actual license. The pastor was granted permission by the state to conduct the ceremony, but he could not issue the license - it had to be approved by some government clerk, after we paid our small fee..

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