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Thread: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

  1. #171
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    You need a marriage license issued by the state to get married within that state. You cannot have a legally recognized Church marriage without a state issued marriage license. If a state doesn't issue marriage licenses they deny everyone within the state the right to marry. As far as I know that's the law in every state.

    As for residency - a few states have residency requirements but most don't as far as I know. So yes in theory you could go to another state. That would prove to be a huge inconvenience to most people and may it impossible for some.

    The way this country does marriage is stupid. States handle the licensing but many benefits derive from the Federal government. It's dumb but it is the way it is. There is no way a state is going to get away with shirking its licensing responsibility. I'd be willing to bed any state that tried would be sued to death by it's own residents.
    Arguing that you can't do something new because of what currently exists isn't a winning argument. States would simply have to pass legislation removing themselves from the marriage licensing business and eliminating all State tax and other State benefits that accrue to holding that license. That does not impinge on the feds ability to issue licenses or for States to recognize those licenses or licenses from other States for other purposes.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  2. #172
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Mine have substance, yours don't seem to do anything but expose the grouchy little attitude the right developed 30 seconds after the ruling came out.
    Well, no, IMO they don't at all. They just contain absolutes that have no basis in fact, and therefor are just an assemblage of words with no substance or content. Exactly, I guess, how you see my words.

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  3. #173
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Mine have substance, yours don't seem to do anything but expose the grouchy little attitude the right developed 30 seconds after the ruling came out.
    Show which ones have substance then.

    I have never seen a post from you without the word "you"....

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, no, IMO they don't at all. They just contain absolutes that have no basis in fact, and therefor are just an assemblage of words with no substance or content. Exactly, I guess, how you see my words.

    So, we are in agreement!
    Absolutes that have no basis in fact... lmao. I provided no absolutes. I provided examples showing why this isn't the constitutional crisis the chicken littles on the right wish it was. It is a problem that has been dealt with in the past, and will be dealt with again using the same types of solutions. These will include firings and... well more firings. If the religious don't like it, I'm sure there are places of work that don't require them to use and uphold the law. Right?
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Show which ones have substance then.
    Have fun reading:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/search...archid=4544889
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #176
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Moderator's Warning:
    Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]I'd suggest that everyone stop playing Mod or you'll feel the power of a real Mod. Also stop with the personal sniping and backhanded insults and stick to the topic or again, you will feel the power of a real Mod. And just so you can slightly feel the power of a Mod I'm going to go one step further. This thread is now under a Zero Tolerance effect. Even the slightest bit of "toeing the line" will get you at the very least thread banned.

    Now...want to play Mod anymore? No? Good.
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If the constituents of the State don't like it, they can elect new representative government. My point is that States shouldn't look to break the law to oppose it, they should simply remove themselves from the equation.
    Actually, what they should do is comply with the law and issue marriage licenses to every couple who qualifies, same way the Southern states no longer deny a marriage license to couples like Justice Thomas and his wife.

    Besides, the "deny licenses to everyone" isn't what the AG proposed. He said that clerks can apply their own individual, personal religious test as a condition of issuing marriage licenses and that idea is just insane and cannot be justified by the law or by reference to the 1st Amendment, which explicitly prohibits exactly what he's proposing.

  8. #178
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Actually, what they should do is comply with the law and issue marriage licenses to every couple who qualifies, same way the Southern states no longer deny a marriage license to couples like Justice Thomas and his wife.

    Besides, the "deny licenses to everyone" isn't what the AG proposed. He said that clerks can apply their own individual, personal religious test as a condition of issuing marriage licenses and that idea is just insane and cannot be justified by the law or by reference to the 1st Amendment, which explicitly prohibits exactly what he's proposing.
    You must have me confused for another poster. I never once tried to justify or condone the Texas AG's move. I was proposing honorable ways for State's truly opposed to the Supreme Court ruling to get out from active adherence to it. I've not seen anyone provide a comment that says States must open abortion clinics because the Supreme Court said all women must have access to abortion. So why should States have to issue marriage licenses because the Supreme Court said every couple must have access to marriage?
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  9. #179
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Absolutes that have no basis in fact... lmao. I provided no absolutes. I provided examples showing why this isn't the constitutional crisis the chicken littles on the right wish it was. It is a problem that has been dealt with in the past, and will be dealt with again using the same types of solutions. These will include firings and... well more firings. If the religious don't like it, I'm sure there are places of work that don't require them to use and uphold the law. Right?
    Despite the words of four Supreme Court Justices, you claimed: No, this is not the giant constitutional crisis that homophobes and some of SSM's lip service providers on the right wish it was.

    That's just baseless worthless insulting blather. That's an absolute without anything other than your declaration that it is so. BS. Four Supreme Court Justices beg to differ with your claim.

    President Donald J Trump, 45th President of the United States of America. A victory born in the hearts and minds of Everyday Americans

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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    I dont think SCOTUS is going to get involved anytime soon. The Texas attorney general, though obviously condeming the decision,did not state that Texas as a whole would refuse to issue licenses to gays.

    Rather, he stated that under Texas law, individual clerks can refuse to issue them. My guess is that all the federal courts, Obama, and the justice departnment will require is that a willing clerk be available.
    Perhaps. Say there are 4 clerks on duty at any one time. I guess if one or two don't like issuing license to gays, as a practical matter, they might be able to refer them at that moment to someone who will. But I doubt if they can send the couple home and tell them to come back tomorrow, when a gay friendly clerk is on duty, or even wait an hour.

    And I'm not sure how that works. Your legal 'right' as an agent of the state to impose your own made up religious test as a condition of a government granted license can't depend on how many others in your office apply a different or no religious test.

    Texas as a whole is not refusing to issue marriage licenses to gays. Rather, state law allows individual clerks to decline to issue one. In short, one has the right to a SSM marriage in Texas. One however, does not have the right that the license be issued by a particular clerk.
    So would it be OK for all the clerks in a 200 mile radius to apply a religious test as a condition of a state-issued license, just as long as there is ONE clerk in Austin who will? There is no way that withstands any legal challenge.

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