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Thread: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

  1. #111
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Not sure they're all that blurry. Objections to interracial marriage were also couched in religious terms, and I don't think anyone would contend clerks in Texas, acting as agents of the state or local government, have a religious "right" acting on behalf of the state to deny e.g. Clarence and Virginia Thomas a license.
    I didn't say anything about anyone's religious rights, or religion at all. I said there were blurry lines.
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    The comedy is we allow government in our relationships. This is some old tyranny BS left over from monarchies. There is no need for government to be involved with marriage or the ability to hand out a license for said marriage.

    /end rant
    It's funny how often this opinion started to come up after it became obvious same-sex marriage was going to be a reality.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I didn't say anything about anyone's religious rights, or religion at all. I said there were blurry lines.
    OK, the thread is about clerks citing their religious beliefs to deny marriage licenses to same sex couples. You agreed with a post that cited the 1st amendments and its (I presume) protections of religious liberty. But you're not talking about religion or religious rights creating blurry lines.

    So what creates the blurry lines? Clerks have some first amendment right (not religion!!) to deny marriage licenses to anyone for any damn reason they want?

    I don't see any blurry lines. The clerks are agents of the government and are to issue licenses to any couple that qualifies for that license, period. They aren't given personal discretion over who they decide gets them and who doesn't. If they don't want to issue licenses to same sex couples, of course they don't have to. They can quit and find another job.

  4. #114
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Does that mean states can start ignoring citizens united? Or call some other conservative victory in front of the ultimate judges of legality, "something I morally/religiously object to" and refuse to do that too? How about catholics refusing to make marriage licenses for baptists or presbyterians?

    Or Jewish state workers deny muslims their marriage license or the other way around? Hey, I am an atheist, could I "object on moral-religious grounds" to give wedding licenses to anybody who is religious?

    It's just a wedding license, I think this is just petty, childish and ultimately behavior that is going to achieve absolutely nothing. It just shows this Paxton is a sore loser who thinks he can pick and choose which supreme court rulings he has to follow.
    I do agree with you. It is a childish gesture hollow but it does get attention. It's like a child getting angry with friends while playing a sport. He whines and takes his ball and goes home. I think it is a decision by the AG which is bad form.
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  5. #115
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    I'm on record here as being opposed to public accommodation laws. I know it isn't the law but I still feel private businesses should be able to discriminate for whatever stupid bigoted reason they want.

    The government, however, may not and if you are a government employee you should not be able to discriminate in the exercising of your duties. If it is your job to issue marriage certificates then you must issue them to anyone legally entitled to them. It doesn't matter if they are gay, straight, Christian, Muslim, atheist or whatever. Should a Muslim clerk be able to refuse a marriage certificate to a Christian couple? It is ridiculous.

    It makes no sense to say that the government may not discriminate but everyone working for the government MAY discriminate in carrying out their duties. Practically speaking, government employees make up the government.

  6. #116
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    I was talking to a friend about this this morning.
    I think the clerk who issues marriage licenses can say no on religious grounds,
    but his job would be forfeit.
    I think the AG's advice is bad, and is setting some poor clerk up to be an example lawsuit.

    Where this is all leading is the separation of Marriage as a religious institution.
    The separation has been there for decades, just not acknowledge.
    A couple still needs a marriage license from the state or county, no matter who does the ceremony.
    The State/county cannot deny anything on religious grounds!
    The ceremony becomes an unnecessary formality,
    The legal contract is complete when both parties agree to the terms.

  7. #117
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Paxton: State workers can deny licenses to same-sex couples

    Here we go the first actual decent from the Joy. I think this is doomed before it starts. There is no end to hate and judgement IMO. Thoughts.
    "The Joy'?

    Let's face the facts. To many people, the hate and judgment has been directed at them by forcing them to violate principles that are sacred to them. That is bound to create quite an emotional response.

    There are still questions about Churches being forced to violate their sacred traditions, or be sanctioned by the government. Can anyone say that is impossible?

    The dust is still in the air, and continuing the hate speech, as you have done, serves no purpose.

  8. #118
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    For correctly stating that the Supreme Court has overstepped the limits of the Constitution and created a new right from wholecloth, then incorporated it against the states? Again?

    That has nothing to do with political "lean." That's just evidence of the poster in question not being stupid.
    The statement: "Created a whole new right" makes me laugh. That is not what happened. What happened is that a pre-existing right was extended to more people. And that's not what really happened either since marriage isn't so much a right but a legal contract with a set of benefits from the Federal government attached to it.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  9. #119
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    In my view, the only way to remedy the situation for States that adamantly oppose SSM is for them to cease issuance of any marriage licenses henceforth and cease any tax or benefit privilege attached to such licenses. Unless I've misread, there's nothing in the Supreme Court ruling that requires States to issue marriage licenses, only that they can't discriminate in the issuance of them. If they stop completely, there's no discrimination.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  10. #120
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    Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    In my view, the only way to remedy the situation for States that adamantly oppose SSM is for them to cease issuance of any marriage licenses henceforth and cease any tax or benefit privilege attached to such licenses. Unless I've misread, there's nothing in the Supreme Court ruling that requires States to issue marriage licenses, only that they can't discriminate in the issuance of them. If they stop completely, there's no discrimination.
    That would end pretty quickly given that Federal benefits are tied to marriages. Either the Feds would begin to issue marriage licenses - not likely - or compel states to resume issuing them for equal protection reasons.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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