Page 3 of 33 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 321

Thread: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

  1. #21
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    09-16-16 @ 07:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,644

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Harman View Post
    If I was him I would demand Germany pay reparations for World War II. Problem solved.
    That issue was settled in a 1990 treaty. Germany owes no further money to Greece from World War II.

  2. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Last Seen
    12-09-15 @ 01:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    775

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    That can be changed I think.

    http://money.cnn.com...ages/index.html

    I don't see how Syriza can "lose" politically here, whereas Merkel & minions have nothing to gain. Except maybe contempt.

    There is no welfare state a la Germany or Sweden in Greece. If you are out of a job for more than a year (or maybe 9 months) apparently you do not receive anything, not even foodstamps.



    The idiot politicians like Merkel do not enjoy the suffering of the poorer half of the Greek population. They simply do not care about them. What they cannot admit is that the austerity measures have utterly failed (they have rather worked as the worked everytime and everywhere and exactly as predicted by some economists, i.e. they made the situation worse) and they want to avoid a similar development in Portugal (or God forbid, Spain). So Greece might be thrown to the dogs to avoid a leftist development in e.g. Spain at all costs.

  3. #23
    Global Moderator
    Old stary eyes
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    11-18-16 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    23,673

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Why did the Greek Government propose exempting "other special categories" and not define them? There's reasonable understanding what constitutes "arduous professions" and the population of mothers with disabled children. One can estimate the impact of pension reforms from exempting those two groups, which is reasonable. But one can't estimate the impact from an undefined "other special categories." That was a key pension-related sticking point that the creditors rejected. A mature Greek leader would have then countered with specificity and then the parties would be able to evaluate the pension reform proposal. No such specificity was forthcoming. Days later, the Greek leadership would punt to try to evade its responsibilities.

    If anything, Grexit might well be the Tsipiras' government's preferred option. It made unsustainable campaign promises. It tried to extort reparations from Germany. It vilified the IMF, which is the party who has gone farthest on debt relief e.g., restructuring.

    It has now punted at the moment where decision is needed. It has shown little regard that the consequences of its punt could be effectively the same as if it had rejected the EU/ECB/IMF proposal.
    You appear to believe that a negotiation involves nothing other than that the 'weaker' party capitulate to the stronger party and deal with the consequences. The Greek position is that to accept the Troika's position, which doesn't involve any debt relief, would inevitably lead to default and Grexit. That's the Troika's position on the Greek proposal, so I guess Grexit is going to happen irrespective. Better that the Greek electorate get to determine the way that will happen, and express their disgust at the institutions that have forced it to happen, when it didn't need to. Let's hope that the consequences of the Greek default are as serious on the creditors as they will certainly be for the Greek people.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  4. #24
    Global Moderator
    Old stary eyes
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    11-18-16 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    23,673

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Harman View Post
    There is no welfare state a la Germany or Sweden in Greece. If you are out of a job for more than a year (or maybe 9 months) apparently you do not receive anything, not even foodstamps.
    That the situation in most of the southern European nations. Here the government suspended all welfare benefit payments for 3 months last year. they said that they would be repaid, but that hasn't happened yet. Those who blame government debt in southern Europe on a bloated welfare state really don't know what they're talking about.

    The idiot politicians like Merkel do not enjoy the suffering of the poorer half of the Greek population. They simply do not care about them. What they cannot admit is that the austerity measures have utterly failed (they have rather worked as the worked everytime and everywhere and exactly as predicted by some economists, i.e. they made the situation worse) and they want to avoid a similar development in Portugal (or God forbid, Spain). So Greece might be thrown to the dogs to avoid a leftist development in e.g. Spain at all costs.
    It would be a serious miscalculation to assume that Grexit will persuade southern European voters that they need to stick with the austerity policies that are killing economies and blaming it on the poor. Or to assume that people are so stupid as to believe that the Grexit wasn't as much the fault of the Eurozone economic imperialists as it was their domestic stooges who built up the debts in the first place.

    Let's be absolutely clear that it is neither the Greek people, nor the Syriza government who bear any responsibility for their predicament. It was the political oligarchies, their criminal and corrupt banking institutions and the creditor institutions who allowed the debt to spiral beyond the ability of the country to manage them. As so many people have said before, it has been the privatisation of profit and the nationalisation of private debt that has brought this about.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  5. #25
    Global Moderator
    Old stary eyes
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    11-18-16 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    23,673

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    That issue was settled in a 1990 treaty. Germany owes no further money to Greece from World War II.
    Not true. The Greeks never agreed to that 1990 treaty. In actual fact, they were never asked to. They have never accepted the 2+4 agreement and hence have never cancelled the war reparations debt that Germany still owes.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  6. #26
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    09-16-16 @ 07:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,644

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock


  7. #27
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    21,492

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    The IMF is partly to blame for what happened in Greece: because they allowed the Greeks to borrow more than 200% of the country's quota (which is determined by each country's capital contribution to the IMF) which was the IMF stated limit for everybody,and then moreso than any other country- in fact I believe its over 1000%.

    But unless Tsipras's party enacts major reforms (such as downsizing government spending and reforming tax collections to increase revenue) and so far it seems to have no intention of doing so, then this new government really is no better than the government it replaced.
    Its not the IMFs fault at all.

    Nor is it their creditors fault

    Greece's borrowed secretly so it could perpetuate the pretense of being a member nation in good standing.

    It lied to get into the Union and then continued to lie right up until it received its first credit down grade in 2009.

  8. #28
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    09-16-16 @ 07:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,644

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Not true. The Greeks never agreed to that 1990 treaty. In actual fact, they were never asked to. They have never accepted the 2+4 agreement and hence have never cancelled the war reparations debt that Germany still owes.
    I meant 1960. That's when the payments issue with Greece was resolved.

  9. #29
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    21,492

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Not true. The Greeks never agreed to that 1990 treaty. In actual fact, they were never asked to. They have never accepted the 2+4 agreement and hence have never cancelled the war reparations debt that Germany still owes.
    Lol !!

    Sure is convenient timing for the Greek Government then isn't it ?

    Greece didn't seem to have have a problem with Germany's war reparations when they were loading up German banks with worthless bonds.

  10. #30
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    21,492

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Harman View Post
    That can be changed I think.

    http://money.cnn.com...ages/index.html

    I don't see how Syriza can "lose" politically here, whereas Merkel & minions have nothing to gain. Except maybe contempt.

    There is no welfare state a la Germany or Sweden in Greece. If you are out of a job for more than a year (or maybe 9 months) apparently you do not receive anything, not even foodstamps.



    The idiot politicians like Merkel do not enjoy the suffering of the poorer half of the Greek population. They simply do not care about them. What they cannot admit is that the austerity measures have utterly failed (they have rather worked as the worked everytime and everywhere and exactly as predicted by some economists, i.e. they made the situation worse) and they want to avoid a similar development in Portugal (or God forbid, Spain). So Greece might be thrown to the dogs to avoid a leftist development in e.g. Spain at all costs.
    Wow !

    You know who doesn't care about the poorer half of the Greek population ?

    The corrupt Greek politicians that borrowed their Nations way into insolvency.

    And "Austerity " is not and was never meant to be a strategy for economic growth or prosperity.

    Austerity is simply a consequence. Its a consequence of unsustainable deficit spending and generally speaking, Socialist agenda's run amok.

Page 3 of 33 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •