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Thread: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

  1. #261
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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    After entering the EU under false pretenses, Greece went out of their way to avoid exceeding the explicit limitations on deficit spending spelled out in the Maastricht Treaty. No, they didn't go out of their way to be socially and fiscally responsible, they went out of their way to hide debt and new loans while they continued to spend on a bloated public sector.
    Absolutely agree - however it is also clear the major EU nations knew or should have suspected that Greece was not in the best condition to share a currency. If you as a wealthy, hardworking person agreed to share financial status and an account with someone way below you in terms of output, industry etc why would you be surprised that the person was using your good reputation and buying what he / she couldn't afford?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    For years Millions of Greek citizens took advantage of unsustainable public sector giveaways including multiple bonuses annually, early pensions and excessive income. All payed for by someone else.
    Agreed, so why did Germany and France push for them to enter the Euro? Most Eurozone nations were so desperate to grow the Eurozone project they ignored so many danger signs that they became complicit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    A Nation could be fined severely for exceeding the deficit spending limitations spelled out int he Maastricht Treaty. Blaming the Creditors for any of this is just ridiculous.
    Germany and France were the first to break the spending limits... So the Greeks looking on could hardly be blamed for thinking "why shouldn't we?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    -- Where was the due diligence from the Greeks when they were spreading their toxic bonds throughout European Banks while taking advantage of the pretense of being a member nation in good standing ? Where was the due diligence when they grew their public sector to unsustainable proportions at the expense of their economy ??
    True, but why didn't those people signing up with the Greeks check Greece's obvious history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    -- Lol...Now your'e just making up excuses as you go along. Other EU Member Nations had no problem adhering to the strict guidelines in the Treaty. Greece gets no sympathy from me and shouldn't get any sympathy from the Troika.
    I think others have pointed out that the other nations broke the strict conditions. What you are not aware of as an outsider is that very often, most rules in the EU are ignored or broken quite regularly - by many nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    It would appear they had every intention of entering into the Union under false pretenses for the explicit purpose of defrauding their creditors. It's analogous to someone figuring out a way to hack the credit agencies so they could turn their 540 Credit score into a 800 for the purpose of acquiring multiple credit cards

    Once the score gets bumped up they go on a spending spree with ZERO intentions of paying back their debt. That's also called Fraud and Greece did it on a National Scale.
    All agreed with - however when that person in your analogy also turns up to the credit agency waving placards that they are actually not a good risk - then the credit agency bears blame for ignoring the warnings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    -- It would appear that they've been fundamentally corrupted by the entitlement mentality. There's not much hope for Greece apparently.
    True, even if they sign up to the latest deal, there are at least 20 more years of extreme hardship and poverty.
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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    Ouch! And I was hoping I might be invited to yer wedding. No big fat Greek ceremony now, eh?

    Fwiw, I'm not gonna say yer "wrong" about that. But I'd like to see you change yer mind. I figure you'd be happier and not lose a thing.


    uhhh, what?

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Chagos View Post
    Don't you understand that you cannot compare the EU to the US?

    The US is a nation where it is also a union. The EU is nothing of the sort and the first step to ever even approach such a status would be for all its people to agree on voting a EU government with possible somebody like Merkel or Hollande heading it.
    Strange response. You say 'you can't compare the EU and the US', and then you do just that, quite accurately. Compare means to note the similarities and dissimilarities between two things.

    The discussion I referred to made those same points, demonstrating two relevant aspects of this situation: a)the lack of solidarity within the EU leadership that belies their claims that we are a community of nations. An attitude within a community, as within a federal nation, is to support its weakest members. The attitude the EU and ECB are showing is that of a transaction between supplier and client. And b) the fundamental design flaw of the Eurozone - i.e that a common currency requires political and fiscal harmonisation, otherwise is operates solely as a market of unequal players, as we can plainly see.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    After Rome and the Byzantines the next order of business for Greece is to ruin the EU.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Stiglitz nails it...

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/102367704
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    After Rome and the Byzantines the next order of business for Greece is to ruin the EU.
    Byzantines? The Greek empire ruined themselves?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Byzantines? The Greek empire ruined themselves?
    The Greeks started ruling the Byzantines since the 7th century. It was their great idea to let Slavs in in exchange for protection.

    What Greek Empire? Which century are you talking about?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    The Greeks started ruling the Byzantines since the 7th century. It was their great idea to let Slavs in in exchange for protection.

    What Greek Empire? Which century are you talking about?
    What are YOU talking about. Learn some history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    What are YOU talking about. Learn some history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire
    I provided dates and the century, I have a historical book to support the above mentioned claims, while you give me Weak-O-Pedia?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Greece has apparently capitulated according to the FT. But it may be too little, too late.

    Also, one of the critical documents the vote was supposed to be based on has a critical translation error that may fundamentally undermine the referendum.

    Oh dear. Bloomberg reports that one of the creditors' documents translated into Greeks so that voters can make an informed decision at the referendum has a mistranslation in it.
    If it wasn't confusing enough, the Greek version of the 'preliminary debt sustainability analysis for Greece' left out a crucial "no"
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...-IMF-live.html

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