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Thread: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

  1. #211
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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Here's the current state of play. Here are three compelling reasons why the Troika needs to change its direction:

    1. The strategy the Troika are insisting Greece pursue has increased the debt, destroyed any possibility of Greece recovering growth and thrown millions of ordinary Greeks, none of whom did anything wrong, into poverty. And that's not just my opinion, it's the IMF's own opinion. They admit that their strategy will not pull Greece out of crisis.

    IMF: austerity measures would still leave Greece with unsustainable debt | World news | The Guardian

    2. The Troika's attitude to Greece owes more to politics than economics. The IMF's attitude towards unrepayable debts being run up by Ukraine stands in sharp contrast to its hardline attitude towards Greece. Would anyone like to hazard a guess at what political considerations can explain such a two-faced approach?

    IMF: Greece vs. Ukraine

    3. Greece's exit from the Eurozone risks creating both economic and political contagion that will threaten the entire Euro project, if not the whole EU future. It isn't Greece that has most to lose from Grexit, and that's not the opinion of an unreconstructed Euro-lefty like me. This from the bastion of Neo-liberalism, The Daily Telegraph.

    Europe ready for Grexit contagion as Athens gets closer to Russian cash - Telegraph
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Much of Greec'es debt is held by Germany which benefited hugely from Greece's entry, extending them massive credit to buy German machinery and goods Greece's economy soared until 2007 and the Bankster crash. For the Greek people the novelty of Syriza is their transparency, previous governments have operated behind closed doors with the public kept in the dark regarding negotiations (which mainly appear to have been utter capitulation to the troika) with only the results being announced.
    it may just be that a resolution can be found even now. Syriza have come up with a fresh plan, conceding even more than they have done so far, with some thinhope of acceptance by the creditors. The referendum might yet be avoided.
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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Here's the current state of play. Here are three compelling reasons why the Troika needs to change its direction:

    1. The strategy the Troika are insisting Greece pursue has increased the debt, destroyed any possibility of Greece recovering growth and thrown millions of ordinary Greeks, none of whom did anything wrong, into poverty. And that's not just my opinion, it's the IMF's own opinion. They admit that their strategy will not pull Greece out of crisis.

    IMF: austerity measures would still leave Greece with unsustainable debt | World news | The Guardian

    2. The Troika's attitude to Greece owes more to politics than economics. The IMF's attitude towards unrepayable debts being run up by Ukraine stands in sharp contrast to its hardline attitude towards Greece. Would anyone like to hazard a guess at what political considerations can explain such a two-faced approach?

    IMF: Greece vs. Ukraine

    3. Greece's exit from the Eurozone risks creating both economic and political contagion that will threaten the entire Euro project, if not the whole EU future. It isn't Greece that has most to lose from Grexit, and that's not the opinion of an unreconstructed Euro-lefty like me. This from the bastion of Neo-liberalism, The Daily Telegraph.

    Europe ready for Grexit contagion as Athens gets closer to Russian cash - Telegraph
    1. Ordinary Greeks did quite a bit wrong. No one pays his/her taxes in Greece.
    2. Ukraine's situation is not at all comparable. If the Greeks were fighting for their freedom instead of fighting to avoid paying their bills it might be different.
    3. Most economists are unworried by Grexit. Greece's economy is too small, and preparations are already in place.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    1. Ordinary Greeks did quite a bit wrong. No one pays his/her taxes in Greece.
    Only the rich ones. The poor are taxed at source, as in the vast majority of EU states.

    2. Ukraine's situation is not at all comparable. If the Greeks were fighting for their freedom instead of fighting to avoid paying their bills it might be different.
    So, you admit it's about political will, not economics. That undermines the Troika's entire case, since they insist it's not a political move.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    So, you admit it's about political will, not economics. That undermines the Troika's entire case, since they insist it's not a political move.
    Ukraine is political. Greece is not.
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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    No one pays his/her taxes in Greece.
    A lot of people people do. A lot of people with good incomes underreport.
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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    A lot of people people do. A lot of people with good incomes underreport.
    I'll have to disagree. Based on living there for three years I'd be surprised to find a single Greek who pays what he really owes. They are wonderful people, but they don't believe taxes in Greece are legitimately demanded, and they see evasion as their right.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Ukraine is political. Greece is not.
    The only explanation for the disparity between the two approaches is political. How ironic if this were to push Greece into the Russian sphere of influence: Default, Grexit, EU exit, NATO exit. Still not worried about contagion?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I'll have to disagree. Based on living there for three years I'd be surprised to find a single Greek who pays what he really owes. They are wonderful people, but they don't believe taxes in Greece are legitimately demanded, and they see evasion as their right.
    So, you're saying they're Libertarians?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    So, you're saying they're Libertarians?
    Similar outcome, different motivation.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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