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Thread: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

  1. #181
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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The Troika knew Greece entered into the Union under false pretenses ?

    Can you prove that or are you just making it up ?
    Here it is from the horse's mouth:

    Letters: EU knew Greece's figures were fiddled | Business | The Guardian
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    My problem is that, I have worked with Greeks and I know the latin mindset..
    Have you tried telling a Greek he's a 'Latin' recently? I think a mountza is the least you'd receive.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    I see the institutions are starting to reap what they have sown.

    Greece debt crisis: Global stock markets slide - BBC News
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Have you tried telling a Greek he's a 'Latin' recently? I think a mountza is the least you'd receive.
    Yea yea but you know what I mean.... latin, med, Southern European, Northern African.. whatever you want to call it.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I see the institutions are starting to reap what they have sown.

    Greece debt crisis: Global stock markets slide - BBC News
    And tomorrow or in a few days the markets will go up. Happens all the time,..
    PeteEU

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And tomorrow or in a few days the markets will go up. Happens all the time,..
    With no long-term damage? We'll see. Spain and Portugal's bond yields are also rising.

    I don't know about where you are, but for the first time ever I've heard Spaniards questioning the sense in remaining in the Euro. Never thought that would happen.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    With no long-term damage? We'll see. Spain and Portugal's bond yields are also rising.
    Yes and it is idiotic.. the clever men/women in the markets should know that you cant compare Greece to any other Euro nation. Why would Spain or Portugal default or ask for debt reduction? Will the UK do it as well? How about the US? Both have more debt than Spain. The economy in Spain and Portugal are pretty good...hell in Spains case it has the most growth of all the Eurozone and more than the UK. The markets are being manipulated by strong forces, mostly out of the Anglo-American sphere, who have basically created this problem in the first place for profit. The amount of false information and propaganda being promoted by financial institutions (many with a direct hand in the problem and till) and the financial news networks who are their willing accomplices, just as they were before the sub-prime crash.

    I don't know about where you are, but for the first time ever I've heard Spaniards questioning the sense in remaining in the Euro. Never thought that would happen.
    Have heard it before, usually from rabid nationalists. It is a lot of fearmongering and bull****. People are not thinking straight and understand what the consequences are of leaving a currency behind, especially one that is stronger than the what they potentially will have. If the Spanish want the pesetas back, then they want back Franco and massive corruption again... tell them that, because that is exactly what will happen. Having your own currency aint exactly a good thing all the time. Why do you think so many countries have adopted the US dollar or Euro over the years as a secondary (read primary) currency? Because these currencies cant be so easily manipulated by local/national government to plaster over the problems in society and you certainly cant just print money to fix a budget deficit.

    I mean look at Greece.. All of Greeces problems could be solved by defaulting and putting in the New Drachma according to the anti-EU/EURO people. Horse****. If Greece survived the destruction of their country by leaving the Euro, then what is going to prevent another corrupt government in the future to just devalue the currency to plug up structural holes in the economy? Italy and Greece and Spain had been doing that for decades if not centuries before that. The UK still does it for **** sake, as does Denmark and others with their own currencies. It does not solve anything and people are not told that by the talking heads because the talking heads most likely have financial motives in a default. And of course with their own currencies, corporations can go back to the bad old days of manipulating markets with price discrimination, an ability they pretty much lost with the Euro.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    I posted the link earlier in the thread. His reasons why a referendum was not appropriate are all the ones aimed at him now.
    Forgive me but this seems like a question of interpretation of what he said?

    I take it this is the link -

    What Tsipras Had Stated About the Greek Referendum in 2011 | GreekReporter.com

    “You know better than me that if the Greek Prime Minister himself tries to have the people face such dilemmas, the real default will be inevitable, and the Greek banks and the Greek economy will collapse before we even reach the voting booth. Just because of the possibility that the people may face such a dilemma, they might vote “No.”

    The current Prime Minister of Greece had then accused Papandreou of despair and had characterized his announcement of a referendum as a “disaster for the Greek economy” and a “harbinger of bankruptcy,” considering it a trick used by the Greek government in its effort to buy more time in power. And he had come into the following conclusion: “The most democratic way of expressing the popular will is elections, not a referendum.”
    There's a lot to be said - from the old cliche "a week is a long time in politics" to "maybe he's changed views due to actions / information he had no prior knowledge of" etc but right now, as I think it would have been 4 years ago before Germany and France stopped the referendum - it's the right thing to do; whatever we think of Tsipras and his politics.
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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Watching some of the news coverage of scenes in Greece, including a rally with Syriza Party officials in attendance where appeals were made to exit the Euro (These Greeks Are Having a Party - Bloomberg Business), leads me to conclude that at least some faction of that party wanted Greece out of the Eurozone all along. The Prime Minister's pulling the rug from his negotiators at the last minute by announcing a referendum and his essentially hanging is Finance Minister out to dry to make a forceful statement on the government's position on capital controls only to impose them shortly thereafter suggests that he may be among that faction.

    Hopefully, Greece's people will vote for the EU/ECB/IMF package and repudiate the Prime Minister's wishes. While the Tsipiras government will have inflicted significant damage on the Greek economy and Greece's people, acceptance of the package and a restoration of assistance could mitigate the damage.

    Finally, I retain confidence in what Europe has built and the Euro currency. What has been built can and will survive the impulsive and destructive actions of a radical actor. And if the Greek people resoundingly repudiate him in a referendum, his days in office could be numbered and a new election could sweep many of the radicals who inflicted unnecessary hardship on an already-suffering population out of office.

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    With no long-term damage? We'll see. Spain and Portugal's bond yields are also rising.

    I don't know about where you are, but for the first time ever I've heard Spaniards questioning the sense in remaining in the Euro. Never thought that would happen.
    The spreads have narrowed in later trading. It's a little soon to be sure what the final outcome will be, but the subsequent narrowing of spreads might be indicative of confidence that the ECB can manage the fallout and Portugal and Spain will be judged on their own risks rather than contagion from Greece.

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