Page 13 of 33 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 321

Thread: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

  1. #121
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,802
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    He was in 1989... which is what was being talked about.
    That is not what was being talked about. A direct quote from #111: ". . . Samaras was finance minister in the late 90s . . . "
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #122
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,802
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yes learn to read is a good idea.. look on the right on what he has done in office.
    Is that your concession?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  3. #123
    Guru
    Ben K.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,708

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    He was in 1989... which is what was being talked about.
    The Euro was introduced in 1999. Greece ascended to the EC in 81. What's the significance in the year 1989?

  4. #124
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,802
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    The Euro was introduced in 1999. Greece ascended to the EC in 81. What's the significance in the year 1989?
    Indeed.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #125
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    21,596

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    It's you who doesn't know your history. Samaras was finance minister in the late 90s, before the launch of the Euro, in that period when they were fixing the stats, assisted by Goldman Sachs and with the connivance of the ECB, IMF and other EU countries.
    They've been " fixing the Stats " ever since they entered the Union under false pretenses

    After becoming a member they took advantage of their new Fiscal status as a Member Nation in good standing to borrow at much lower rates.

    There were strict limitations on deficit spending written into the Treaty that Greece signed to get into the EU.

    Those limits were ignored while a corrupt Greek Government financed entitlements , unsustainable public sector give aways and public sector pensions with other people's money

    The worst thing they could have done was to elect a radical Che Guevara worshipping left wing activist instead of a leader.

  6. #126
    Sage

    polgara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    16,808

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    I suspect not. The new drachma would be worthless, and Greece would not be able to tap international credit markets. So how exactly would they pay for basic things like... fuel. Without fuel, the country cant run.. it is as simple as that. Add to that food and other things that the Greeks import. Car parts.. suddenly getting your car fixed goes up several hundred pro cent.. that is if you can afford buying gasoline of course.

    Now the argument for the pro-Grexit people would be that, the Greek exports would become cheap.. yea that is true, but at the same time the imports would become extremely expensive. So only things produced in Greece would be affordable to locals, and this can cause problems in the short run. Also as someone above pointed out, Greece does not have a big export business. This can of course grow due its cheapness, but that takes time.. something that Greece does not have.

    Another argument for the pro-Grexit people is that, yes but tourist would flock to Greece because it is so cheap. This is true, but would people really want to go to Greece, a country in social upheaval? Not to mention.. remember the first point.. fuel? How fun is it to be in a country where the power goes out? I mean there are cheap places to go in the Balkans, and yet you dont really see Romania and Bulgaria as hotspots for tourists do you? Now Greece has history and is historically a tourist hotspot, but we have seen how tourism has suffered in 2009-2012.. it has picked up some what, but no where near as it should have and suddenly because they have a new currency then it should explode? I dont think so.

    But the fundamental problem for Greece is that just because they make a new currency, this does not mean that they dont still owe all that money away... they do. So you will see lawsuits in many countries going after Greek assets abroad.. we have seen that with Iran and Argentina. And then there is of course all the deposits in Greece.. they will be converted to the new currency, but chances are that the loans that locals have will still be in Euros... which causes even bigger problems. You have savings and income in New Drachma that is worthless, but you need to pay your mortgage in Euros. We saw what that did in Iceland.. 25% of the home owners over night went belly up.

    So the argument for a New Drachma all boils down to one thing.. the ability to print money and pay locals in that money.. they cant buy anything with it, but at least they are getting paid right?
    Greetings, PeteEU.

    Excellent post! I wasn't thinking as far ahead as you are, and reading your post was like opening a window on possible future problems for Greece. Focusing only on tourism, the recent ISIS massacre of vacationers in Tunisia is bound to cool tourism in many places around the globe, Greece included. Poor little Greece doesn't have much to look forward to, do they? They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't, and that's so sad! I did see an article on Yahoo that people are withdrawing all the money they can from their ATMs at the banks, even running some of them bone dry, so they are trying to cope with what's happening the only way they can. That's a short term thing, though - what's going to happen when all that money is spent? *shaking head in pity for the people of Greece*

  7. #127
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    26,400

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, PeteEU.

    Excellent post! I wasn't thinking as far ahead as you are, and reading your post was like opening a window on possible future problems for Greece. Focusing only on tourism, the recent ISIS massacre of vacationers in Tunisia is bound to cool tourism in many places around the globe, Greece included.
    Actually that will most likely benefit Greece a bit. Most likely it will benefit Portugal, Spain and Italy a lot, just like the Egypt decline in tourism has done
    PeteEU

  8. #128
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:54 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    13,647

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    ~ Focusing only on tourism, the recent ISIS massacre of vacationers in Tunisia is bound to cool tourism in many places around the globe, Greece included ~
    One of the problems Greece has had is that would be tourists end up paying extortionate airport taxes and costs when considering flying to Greece. If you look at hotel prices in Greece and Turkey, they are already quite cheap but the airplane and aircraft taxes take the costs very high. Flying to Spain and Portugal from the UK means less air flight time but the costs of hotels rises dramatically and the end result is holidays cost exactly the same whether you fly 1-2 hours to Spain or 7-8 hours to Greece.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    --

    Leadership requires difficult choices at times. Unfortunately, the Greek Prime Minister decided to punt on his leadership responsibilities by delegating what is a grave decision to the general public, who almost surely lack the details related to Greece's fiscal situation, the EU/ECB/IMF offer, and understanding of the consequences involved ~
    I see his decision as carrying the people with him. Leadership does take difficult decisions but it also means you have to carry people with you sometimes. If the people choose to stay in the Euro then they will have to take the pain to make that happen; if they choose to exit, they need to know about the consequences.

    If the UK was in such dire straits, I would want a say in such a national decision.
    Find Corrie McKeague, missing RAF serviceman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breibart journo Milo Yiannopoulos (this is ironic because "race realists" exist)
    "The real racists… are very serious, are deep into studies and data attempting to prove that some races are smarter than other races - they're really dorky." Link.

  9. #129
    Sage

    polgara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    16,808

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    What he promised was never possible, and led directly to the current crisis. This was foreseeable.
    If that were to happen here, would the average guy on the street understand what's happening any better than the guy on the street in Greece? Human nature being what it is, I doubt it. People want to believe that politicians know best, since they are the leaders, so they leave the problem solving to them. Sometimes that works, and sometimes not, as the people of Greece are seeing firsthand.

  10. #130
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,802
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    One of the problems Greece has had is that would be tourists end up paying extortionate airport taxes and costs when considering flying to Greece. If you look at hotel prices in Greece and Turkey, they are already quite cheap but the airplane and aircraft taxes take the costs very high. Flying to Spain and Portugal from the UK means less air flight time but the costs of hotels rises dramatically and the end result is holidays cost exactly the same whether you fly 1-2 hours to Spain or 7-8 hours to Greece.



    I see his decision as carrying the people with him. Leadership does take difficult decisions but it also means you have to carry people with you sometimes. If the people choose to stay in the Euro then they will have to take the pain to make that happen; if they choose to exit, they need to know about the consequences.

    If the UK was in such dire straits, I would want a say in such a national decision.
    Tsipras created the problem and is now hiding behind the people.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

Page 13 of 33 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •