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Thread: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Read a newspaper.

    your white flag is noted.

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Samaras did such a bang-up job that he was defeated. Resoundingly. He was a part of that old, ruling oligarchy that got Greece into the mess. He was Finance Minister at a time when the very worst abuses of corruption were being committed. Hardly surprising he lost and hardly surprising that having done so he's now conspiring with Brussels to explore some kind of coup.
    Unfortunately, think of poor old Papanderou and what might have been. He also wanted a referendum back in 2011, when creditors and fellow debtor nations may have been forced to concede if he had domestic support to push through with it. This is what Tsipras had to say then:

    When Tsipras was asked by Greek journalist Nikos Chatzinikolaou about Greek PM George Papandreou‘s announcement of a referendum in Greece, he replied: “You know better than me that if the Greek Prime Minister himself tries to have the people face such dilemmas, the real default will be inevitable, and the Greek banks and the Greek economy will collapse before we even reach the voting booth. Just because of the possibility that the people may face such a dilemma, they might vote “No.”

    The current Prime Minister of Greece had then accused Papandreou of despair and had characterized his announcement of a referendum as a “disaster for the Greek economy” and a “harbinger of bankruptcy,” considering it a trick used by the Greek government in its effort to buy more time in power. And he had come into the following conclusion: “The most democratic way of expressing the popular will is elections, not a referendum.”
    - See more at: What Tsipras Had Stated About the Greek Referendum in 2011 | GreekReporter.com

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    your white flag is noted.
    You wish.

    From 2014:

    Merkel and Samaras laud Greece's progress on reforms

    www.dw.com/en/merkel-and-samaras-laud-greeces...on.../a-17948976


    3 days ago - Samaras made it clear that he expects further easing of the repayment conditions for Greece's sovereign debt. He said he anticipated the ...

    Please inform yourself.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    You wish.

    From 2014:

    Merkel and Samaras laud Greece's progress on reforms

    www.dw.com/en/merkel-and-samaras-laud-greeces...on.../a-17948976


    3 days ago - Samaras made it clear that he expects further easing of the repayment conditions for Greece's sovereign debt. He said he anticipated the ...

    Please inform yourself.

    let's put his "plan" in context

    say you are a painter, and have unsustainable credit card debt
    you work with your creditors, you get a 2nd job mopping floors
    still, you can't really get your debts paid down.
    your creditor says, hey, if you cut off your fingers and give them to us, we'll ease your payments a bit
    rather than simply file bankruptcy, you agree.
    then, when you are no longer able to paint, your debt grows even worse because you lost part of your income stream.
    On the bright side, think of your savings on dining out, since you will be eating from a feed tube anyways.

    I suppose you can call it a "plan"; I presumed you meant a logical one. Samaras "plan" (accepting even more crippling austerity to benefit banks and oligarchs) was in fact, folly . As seen by the acceleration of wage decline and empoyment that his "plan" produced. It's what's called a feedback loop.

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    News from the front. The Greek Finance Minister on the everchanging face of the "negotiations".

    "The Eurogroup Meeting of 27th June 2015 will not go down as a proud moment in Europe’s history. Ministers turned down the Greek government’s request that the Greek people should be granted a single week during which to deliver a Yes or No answer to the institutions’ proposals – proposals crucial for Greece’s future in the Eurozone. The very idea that a government would consult its people on a problematic proposal put to it by the institutions was treated with incomprehension and often with disdain bordering on contempt. I was even asked: “How do you expect common people to understand such complex issues?”. Indeed, democracy did not have a good day in yesterday’s Eurogroup meeting! But nor did European institutions. After our request was rejected, the Eurogroup President broke with the convention of unanimity (issuing a statement without my consent) and even took the dubious decision to convene a follow up meeting without the Greek minister, ostensibly to discuss the “next steps”. ... "



    As it happened – Yanis Varoufakis’ intervention during the 27th June 2015 Eurogroup Meeting | Yanis Varoufakis
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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    let's put his plan in context

    say you are a painter, and have unsustainable credit card debt
    you work with your creditors, you get a 2nd job mopping floors
    still, you can't really get your debts paid down.
    your creditor says, hey, if you cut off your fingers and give them to us, we'll ease your payments a bit
    rather than simply file bankruptcy, you agree.
    then, when you are no longer able to paint, your debt grows even worse because you lost part of your income stream.

    I suppose you can call it a "plan"; I presumed you meant a logical one. Samaras "plan" (accepting even more crippling austerity to benefit banks and oligarchs) was in fact, folly .
    We'll have to agree to disagree. Samaras would have kept Greece within the European financial system and enabled eventual recovery and growth. Tsipras is about to lead Greece into the wilderness and undermine future prospects. He will set Greece back a generation.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    We'll have to agree to disagree. Samaras would have kept Greece within the European financial system and enabled eventual recovery and growth. Tsipras is about to lead Greece into the wilderness and undermine future prospects. He will set Greece back a generation.

    They've already been set back at least 2 generations by the decisions of Samaras

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Tsipras is now trapped by his own rhetoric, and has brought on the crisis.
    I predict a "yes" vote. I believe the government will go through the motions of calling for a "no" vote, hoping the referendum will pass. That way, they can maintain support from opponents of austerity while at the same time the door would remain open to a compromise that would avoid a Grexit. I see this as a very risky strategy, but I don't see an alternative.
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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    let's put his "plan" in context

    say you are a painter, and have unsustainable credit card debt
    you work with your creditors, you get a 2nd job mopping floors
    still, you can't really get your debts paid down.
    your creditor says, hey, if you cut off your fingers and give them to us, we'll ease your payments a bit
    rather than simply file bankruptcy, you agree.
    then, when you are no longer able to paint, your debt grows even worse because you lost part of your income stream.
    On the bright side, think of your savings on dining out, since you will be eating from a feed tube anyways.

    I suppose you can call it a "plan"; I presumed you meant a logical one. Samaras "plan" (accepting even more crippling austerity to benefit banks and oligarchs) was in fact, folly . As seen by the acceleration of wage decline and empoyment that his "plan" produced. It's what's called a feedback loop.
    If the alternative to " austerity " is just more deficit spending, where does the money come from ?

    Greece was kicked out of the bond markets ( as if anyone would buy their debt again ).

    And the Greek people and the radical left wing ideologues like Tsipras didn't have a problem with the " Bankers " and Oligarchs when they were footing the bill to keep Greece's bloated public sector going.

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    Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    They've already been set back at least 2 generations by the decisions of Samaras
    Samaras was the only leader who could save the country. His defeat was a catastrophe for Greece.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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