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Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

You guys have been wrong in predicting these cases again and again. When will you consider you know know the law or the Constitution as well as you think?

I would suggest that you take a course in American Government, specifically in regards to the Separation of Powers and how the US Supreme Court is supposed to work. It's not that we predicted wrong, it's that five of the nine justices acted as activist judges. They legislated from the bench. What they are supposed to do is interpret the constitutionality of a law based on how it is written....not interpret it according to what they would like it to say. The US Spreme Court is of the Judicial branch. If they want to legislate, they should resign from the court and run for congress.
 
LOL. You mean when I nailed you to the wall on misstatements (because health care is a field that is my profession and I've been involved in both the public and private sectors for 25 years - which I'm pretty sure qualifies as 'research') and you ignored it and started screaming about liberals taking your tax money, and then demanded I answer to your ideological cartoon position?

No, sport. Experiance in healthcare does not necessarily qualify as research. Are you actually involved in providing healthcare? Or do you just sell health insurance?
 
I know it so funny how some who are so opposed to " Obamacare " think having private insurance means they don't have " Obamacare".

My sister in law is totally against the ACA which she calls Obamacare but she was so happy she was able to help her 23 year son who lives out state ( and save a lot of money too ) by adding him to her policy.

She doesn't even know that if were not for the ACA ( " Obamacare ") she would not be able to do that. She thinks since she has private insurance she does not have that dreaded " Obamacare". :lol:

However, when the lad reaches the age of 27, his mom will have to cut the apron strings.
 
I would suggest that you take a course in American Government, specifically in regards to the Separation of Powers and how the US Supreme Court is supposed to work. It's not that we predicted wrong, it's that five of the nine justices acted as activist judges. They legislated from the bench. What they are supposed to do is interpret the constitutionality of a law based on how it is written....not interpret it according to what they would like it to say. The US Spreme Court is of the Judicial branch. If they want to legislate, they should resign from the court and run for congress.

Here is the oppinion of the court:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/14-114_qol1.pdf

Point out where majority made its error.
 
According to a MIT economist who helped develop the law about half the money comes from medicare savings, another 25 percent from the added taxes on medical-device makers and drug companies and the rest rest from those families who make over $250,000 a year.

Medicare savings? It is actually medicare theft. They pulled half a trillion dollars from Medicare to help pay for obamacare. In doing so, they are not reimbursing medicare doctors at a rate less then it actually costs to treat medicare patients. It is creating a shortage of medicare doctors. Taxes on medical device makers?.......stupid move. The so-called affordable healthcare act was supposed to make healthcare affordable...not more expensives. Adding taxes to the drug companies will make medical drugs more expensive. And the rest does not come merely from families that make over $250,000 a year. It is robbing blind, anyone who does not qualify for a subsidy.
 
Medicare savings? It is actually medicare theft. They pulled half a trillion dollars from Medicare to help pay for obamacare. In doing so, they are not reimbursing medicare doctors at a rate less then it actually costs to treat medicare patients. It is creating a shortage of medicare doctors. Taxes on medical device makers?.......stupid move. The so-called affordable healthcare act was supposed to make healthcare affordable...not more expensives. Adding taxes to the drug companies will make medical drugs more expensive. And the rest does not come merely from families that make over $250,000 a year. It is robbing blind, anyone who does not qualify for a subsidy.

Actually, the money they took from Medicare did not come from reimbursements to doctors, and there are more doctors who accept Medicare now than there have ever been before
 
We do give directly to charities.
...

Since the ACA was passed more doctors have computerized records. More patients can monitor their lab results online and communicate with their doctors online. Hospitals and nurses use the computers bedside to make sure the correct patient is receiving the correct meds at the correct dosage. Duplicate tests are being elimated since nurses and doctors can view the results on previous tests even when those tests were taken out of state.

This article also tells more quality results from the ACA



Read more:

The Melody Of Quality Measures: Harmonize And Standardize

You are kidding, right? You think computerized and online records would not have happened without Obamacare? That was beginning long before the moron in the oval office even dreamed of running for president.
 
Now we can get down to substance, instead of your ideological pap.

Quality was and is a key part of the ACA, with the establishment of pay for performance measures to the Center for Medicare Innovation.

You have no clue what you are talking about. This proves it.

The matter is concluded.

You have no clue whatsoever about performance. The so-called outcome based pay does not account for the bad health habits or gene pool of the patients.
 
Wrong, at least in Tennessee. Here you have to be poor, and a mother or disabled. If you're just poor, chances are very good you do NOT qualify for Medicaid, and we're talking just above the poverty level poor.

I don't buy it.
 
I don't buy it.

Ok, so facts are optional in your world. I knew that. You can see the list of those who qualify here:

https://www.tn.gov/tenncare/article/tenncare-medicaid

Some of the groups TennCare Medicaid covers are:

Children under age 21
Women who are pregnant
Parents or caretakers of a minor child (The child must live with you and be a close relative.)
Women who need of treatment for breast or cervical cancer
People who get an SSI check (Supplemental Security Income)
People who have gotten both an SSI check and a Social Security check in the same month at least once since April, 1977 AND who still get a Social Security check
A person who:
Lives in a nursing home and has income below $2,199 per month, or
Gets other long term care services that TennCare pays for

- See more at: https://www.tn.gov/tenncare/article/tenncare-medicaid#sthash.jt26JDs5.dpuf

Don't like that? Here's the state summary:

TennCare is the state of Tennessee’s Medicaid program that provides health care for approximately 1.3 million Tennesseans and operates with an annual budget of approximately $10 billion. TennCare members are primarily low-income pregnant women, children and individuals who are elderly or have a disability. -

See more at: https://www.tn.gov/tenncare/article/tenncare-overview#sthash.vv6xhXzs.dpuf

The charity has about 70 guys, all of them poor, most of them working. Almost none of them qualify for Medicaid unless they are classified as disabled. So it doesn't matter much what you "buy" that is what the program covers.
 
Not at all. A study does not have to necessarily agree with my point of view....it merely needs to be based on actual science or common sense.

No, you categorically dismissed studies about healthcare in general. You're dismissing them because you know that studies in general don't support your stance- based on the conclusions they reach, not the way they get there.
 
Quality never was the issue in ACA and it is obvious it won't provide quality but rather just coverage and it won't reduce costs as no federal entitlement program does that.

Quality and cost control are indeed the issues in the ACA. We've gone from the days of "the law is too many pages and tries to do too much!" to "it's narrowly focused and does very little!"
 
Quality and cost control are indeed the issues in the ACA. We've gone from the days of "the law is too many pages and tries to do too much!" to "it's narrowly focused and does very little!"

Name for me one govt. run program that ever cost what it was supposed to cost and actually lowered prices? Stop thinking with your heart and buying the liberal rhetoric
 
Name for me one govt. run program that ever cost what it was supposed to cost and actually lowered prices? Stop thinking with your heart and buying the liberal rhetoric

The ACA

Maybe not--it's costing significantly less than it was supposed to cost.
Overall, the health-care law will now cost 29% less for the 2015-19 period than was first forecast by the CBO when the law was signed in March 2010. Back then, the CBO and the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that for the last five years of their 10-year projection, Obamacare would cost $710 billion. Now, they expect it will cost $506 billion for the same period.

But we have seen some interesting things on the price front.

Here's a first: January hospital prices lower than a year ago
The prices that health insurers paid to acute-care hospitals declined in January [2015] compared with the same month a year ago, a first since federal officials began to collect such data. Public sector and private payer efforts to push down costs could explain the drop, experts said.
 
The ACA

Maybe not--it's costing significantly less than it was supposed to cost.


But we have seen some interesting things on the price front.

Here's a first: January hospital prices lower than a year ago

ACA hasn't even been fully implemented but has had many of the tax increases and money has already been stolen from Medicare which was a self funded program paid for by FICA taxes. SS costs were lower than expected to because the life expectancy was much lower than the original payout date so I await for the Federal Social program that cost less than intended

You do also realize these are projections and not reality??
 
ACA hasn't even been fully implemented but has had many of the tax increases and money has already been stolen from Medicare which was a self funded program paid for by FICA taxes.

It's pretty fully implemented at this point, you can drop this nonsense.

You do also realize these are projections and not reality??

Don't worry, we have actual costs for the first year. It was more than a third cheaper than promised.

CBO Provides First Snapshot of Coverage Expansion Costs
October 10, 2014 -- The cost of expanding insurance coverage under the health law in fiscal 2014 was far lower than budget experts predicted when Congress passed the overhaul four years ago, according to figures released this week by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

The preliminary numbers capture the expenses for the fiscal year during which the main coverage expansion provisions of the law kicked in.

The Treasury paid out $13 billion in subsidies to help lower-income Americans pay premiums for plans sold on insurances exchanges and in some cases, cover their out-of-pocket costs. By comparison, CBO projections in March 2010 pegged the cost of the subsidies at $19 billion for the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30.

The projections have consistently overshot the reality. Which is another way of saying the law has consistently cost less than it was supposed to.

So next time someone asks you (or you feel the need to ask) when a federal program has been cheaper than promised, you have an answer! The ACA.
 
It's pretty fully implemented at this point, you can drop this nonsense.



Don't worry, we have actual costs for the first year. It was more than a third cheaper than promised.

CBO Provides First Snapshot of Coverage Expansion Costs


The projections have consistently overshot the reality. Which is another way of saying the law has consistently cost less than it was supposed to.

So next time someone asks you (or you feel the need to ask) when a federal program has been cheaper than promised, you have an answer! The ACA.

No the enrollment isn't what has been projected and that affects costs. The fines haven't kicked in yet for many businesses thus full implementation hasn't taken place. You buy what you are told and nothing is going to change your mind including actual results. You confuse projections with facts and look at one year as an example of years to come. Liberals love having people like you

Any idea how the subsidies affect costs and do you even have a clue what CBO does and the accuracy of their PROJECTIONS??
 
No the enrollment isn't what has been projected and that affects costs. The fines haven't kicked in yet for many businesses thus full implementation hasn't taken place. You buy what you are told and nothing is going to change your mind including actual results. You confuse projections with facts and look at one year as an example of years to come. Liberals love having people like you

I can't even tell--are you acknowledging that it's costing less (significantly less) than it was supposed to or not? You seem to be in full-on excuse mode for why that should be so I'm assuming the answer is yes.

In which case, again consider your question answered. Which program has ever cost less than promised? The ACA!

Any idea how the subsidies affect costs and do you even have a clue what CBO does and the accuracy of their PROJECTIONS??

They seem to have significantly overestimated the cost of the ACA, I'll grant you that.
 
I can't even tell--are you acknowledging that it's costing less (significantly less) than it was supposed to or not? You seem to be in full-on excuse mode for why that should be so I'm assuming the answer is yes.

In which case, again consider your question answered. Which program has ever cost less than promised? The ACA!



They seem to have significantly overestimated the cost of the ACA, I'll grant you that.

No, the point remains projections are just that and to base those projections on a year is nothing but foolish and inaccurate. Any idea how accurate the CBO is on their projections? Why don't you look it up? Now tell me what happens if you are wrong and costs skyrocket like they have done with SS and Medicare? Why do you so willingly accept

They over estimated the costs because the enrollment isn't as expected and people aren't going to sign up until the fines kick in. it is amazing how low you can get the costs with taxpayer subsidies, isn't it?
 
Actually, the money they took from Medicare did not come from reimbursements to doctors, and there are more doctors who accept Medicare now than there have ever been before

Facts are such difficult things for some to accept....
 
You have no clue whatsoever about performance. The so-called outcome based pay does not account for the bad health habits or gene pool of the patients.

Well, sparky, it's become quite obvious to which one of us has no clue.

Quality based performance measures are just that, they improve quality of care. And they are starting to work quite well, from what I've been seeing.
 
You are kidding, right? You think computerized and online records would not have happened without Obamacare? That was beginning long before the moron in the oval office even dreamed of running for president.

Actually, the move to EMR was initiated by the stimulus bill in 2009.

And yeah, if that didn't jump start the system, it might not have happened for a long, long time.

So remember to say 'Thanks, Obama' for that too. It's going to improve medical care considerably.
 
No, the point remains projections are just that and to base those projections on a year is nothing but foolish and inaccurate. Any idea how accurate the CBO is on their projections?

The projections are what are "promised" in advance. No kidding they turned out to be inaccurate--the ACA has been coming in well below what was promised. That's my point.

Like I said, you have your answer. Which program's costs have ever come in below what was promised? The ACA!
 
Facts are such difficult things for some to accept....

The question is why was any money taken from Medicare for ACA?? Do you understand what funds Medicare? Any problem with your taxdollars that were to fund YOUR Medicare being taken to fund a program that is not part of Medicare??
 
The question is why was any money taken from Medicare for ACA?? Do you understand what funds Medicare? Any problem with your taxdollars that were to fund YOUR Medicare being taken to fund a program that is not part of Medicare??

No money was taken from Medicare to fund the ACA. What is mixing you up is that the ACA saves Medicare money- it slows the rate of increase of the cost of healthcare and subsidies offset some of the need for Medicare. Some Republican politicians tries to spin that as if the ACA cut the budget for Medicare for a while, but it wasn't true. Stranger still, Republicans suddenly arguing that cutting Medicare is a bad thing is totally ridiculous. They've spent decades trying to cut Medicare lol.
 
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