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Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

ObamacareFail said:
However it would be wise for the republicans to unify behind a common sense reform plan in the lead up to either repeal of the obamacare house of cards coming down on it's own.
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If they only could think of one...
 
Greenbeard said:
Kasich has made the moral case for embracing the ACA's Medicaid expansion. That's got to be a tough sell in a GOP primary.

In the primaries four years ago Rick Perry got himself into trouble by supporting compassion for immigrant children and charging that opponents of DREAM-esqe legislation are heartless ("If you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they have been brought there by no fault of their own, I don’t think you have a heart."). That didn't go over well with the base, as I recall.

Kasich has arguably gone further, implying opponents of Obama's Medicaid expansion are going to hell: "Now, when you die and get to the meeting with St. Peter, he’s probably not going to ask you much about what you did about keeping government small. But he is going to ask you what you did for the poor. You better have a good answer." How are the poor-bashing, ACA-despising ogres in the base going to like it when he holds a mirror up to them?
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Well Kasich, do you give ten percent of your salary every year to the poor? No Kasich, you can't count money taken from you by force by the government, but only the money that you voluntarily gave to the poor on your own accord. Well Kasich, do you? As for me, well I give eleven percent on average to the poor and since I oppose theft, extortion and involuntary servitude I oppose welfare. If you have a problem with that, well, **** you.

Oh and Kasich, if you want to be judged favorably by St. Peter you better start giving ten percent of your salary to the poor voluntarily.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
No, you just expect others to fully fund your medical costs when those costs exceed your premium.
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I wasn't forced to buy ACA and chose the insurance company that I pay premiums to. I knew the cost, I knew the deductible and I knew the coverage. Unlike you I take personal responsibility and don't expect your TAX DOLLARS to fund my insurance. You seem to not understand that it is tax dollars funding people like you not personal premium payments
 
Conservative said:
I wasn't forced to buy ACA and chose the insurance company that I pay premiums to. I knew the cost, I knew the deductible and I knew the coverage. Unlike you I take personal responsibility and don't expect your TAX DOLLARS to fund my insurance. You seem to not understand that it is tax dollars funding people like you not personal premium payments
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You seem to not understand that the ACA is more than just exchanges. You were 'forced to buy 'ACA, and that's why your insurance probably has better benefits than you've ever had in the past, like no lifetime cap, for example.

I find it just amazing that the ACA opponents are consistently the people who understand it least.
 
Threegoofs said:
You seem to not understand that the ACA is more than just exchanges. You were 'forced to buy 'ACA, and that's why your insurance probably has better benefits than you've ever had in the past, like no lifetime cap, for example.

I find it just amazing that the ACA opponents are consistently the people who understand it least.
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When are you going to learn that you do not know every individual's own insurance issues? You have no idea what I had or what my benefits were but I will tell you nothing ACA offers comes even close. You buy the leftwing lies and one of these days you are going to realize it.

What is it about liberals that creates this kind of arrogance in that you know what is best for everyone else? Did you grow up expecting someone else to pay for your personal responsibility issues for that is what you are calling for with taxpayer dollars funding your healthcare insurance. With your attitude no wonder this country is over 18 trillion in debt
 
Chomsky said:
The SC decides final interpretation ludin, and they evaluate legislation in legal terms, not linguistic.
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since when is a federal department a State? the HHS is a department of government it is not a state nor does it have the power to act as a state nor the authority
to represent a state. the SCOTUS was wrong which is the whole point.

There's more to law, than specific phrases - there's context.
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the context was clear. only state based exchanges were to get subsidies. HHS is not a state.

With all respects, and no specific prejudice to yourself, I'll trust the legal judgement of the Justices of the Court, before that an individual on the internet - though I'm happy for the discussion. But if we don't respect the Court, who do we respect?
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as I have recently found out respect is earned not given and when the SCOTUS put politics above their job and above their oath of office then no they don't deserve respect.

I do agree the legislation can be re-written (within constitutional authority) if the political will is there (specifically, a GOP President & 60 count filibuster-proof Senate).
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it will be there once Obama is gone and we have a republican presidency.
the budget reconciliation process will be used to remove obamacare from the law.
 
Conservative said:
When are you going to learn that you do not know every individual's own insurance issues? You have no idea what I had or what my benefits were but I will tell you nothing ACA offers comes even close. You buy the leftwing lies and one of these days you are going to realize it.

What is it about liberals that creates this kind of arrogance in that you know what is best for everyone else? Did you grow up expecting someone else to pay for your personal responsibility issues for that is what you are calling for with taxpayer dollars funding your healthcare insurance. With your attitude no wonder this country is over 18 trillion in debt
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Because I know what the ACA has done for insurance in the U.S. It was a rare plan that offered unlimited caps on healthcare insurance, and, in fact, it was illegal in most states, including Texas ($3 million lifetime cap- not enough to pay for some serious diseases), where you presumably had a plan!

Apparently you didn't know this about your own insurance.

From reading your posts, I have a strong feeling you didn't know what your insurance covered before ACA, and don't know now ( in your 'non-ACA plan!). But your position is firm.....and its wholeheartedly based on abject and willful ignorance
 
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Threegoofs said:
Because I know what the ACA has done for insurance in the U.S. It was a rare plan that offered unlimited caps on healthcare insurance, and, in fact, it was illegal in most states.

From reading your posts, I have a strong feeling you didn't know what your insurance covered before ACA, and don't know now ( in your 'non-ACA plan!).
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Your opinion noted as is your arrogance. You have no idea what you are talking about and obviously need another entitlement program to help with the jealousy you have of others who have more than you. I find people like you who are unable to compete demanding more and more taxpayer funded services to provide equal outcome, not just equal opportunity. Who pays for those subsidies you are getting from ACA?
 
ludin said:
the budget reconciliation process will be used to remove obamacare from the law.
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Sorry, sparky, reconciliation can't be used to increase the deficit. The CBO just certified last week (under the GOP's hand-picked successor to Elmendorf) that repealing the ACA would increase the deficit.

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tuhaybey said:
I said people lacking care causes them to wait until things are an emergency, when the problems are much more expensive to fix.

You responded by saying that was a lie because they were able to get emergency care.

Do you see the problem in your reasoning?
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No...only in your understanding. It is a myth that the hard core non-insured avoid going to the emergency room or a clinic until they are in an emergency situation or nearly at deaths door. They go as much or more then those who are insured, knowing that they will be billed based on ability to pay. Have you never heard of free clinics? And there were many uninsured who could afford insurance who simply opted to pay at the point of service.
 
Greenbeard said:
Sorry, sparky, reconciliation can't be used to increase the deficit. The CBO just certified last week (under the GOP's hand-picked successor to Elmendorf) that repealing the ACA would increase the deficit.

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Please name for me the last ACCURATE CBO projection? All projections are based upon the assumptions given them by the Congress and the President and based upon what do they come up with an increase in the deficit? In addition how can anyone who supports Obama be concerned about the deficit when he has added over 7.6 trillion to the debt in less than 7 years
 
Greenbeard said:
Sorry, sparky, reconciliation can't be used to increase the deficit. The CBO just certified last week (under the GOP's hand-picked successor to Elmendorf) that repealing the ACA would increase the deficit.

496552.jpg
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Wrong reconciliation can be used to make adjustments from the budget and the same CBO says that it cannot score obamacare or the effectiveness of any saving due to the changes
that have been made. so the budget in general is in fair game under reconciliation that includes obamcare.
 
Conservative said:
Your opinion noted as is your arrogance. You have no idea what you are talking about and obviously need another entitlement program to help with the jealousy you have of others who have more than you. I find people like you who are unable to compete demanding more and more taxpayer funded services to provide equal outcome, not just equal opportunity. Who pays for those subsidies you are getting from ACA?
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3G's most used fallback is to claim that his opponent has little knowledge of what his/her insurance covered before ACA. He wants to believe that nobody shopped around prior to Obamacare. That is his only defense to people pointing out how much cheaper their policies were compared to obamacare policies
 
Conservative said:
Your opinion noted as is your arrogance. You have no idea what you are talking about and obviously need another entitlement program to help with the jealousy you have of others who have more than you. I find people like you who are unable to compete demanding more and more taxpayer funded services to provide equal outcome, not just equal opportunity. Who pays for those subsidies you are getting from ACA?
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LOL.

I present facts. You rail on about something else when you can't dispute them.

It's only 'arrogant' when I'm exaggerating what I know. I've already shown you I'm not. You had a lifetime cap on your insurance before, now you don't. (This is where you say 'Thanks, Obama!).

Then you pretend to know what my health insurance situation is. I'm pleased to let you know I'm quite secure in a strong plan provided by my employer, with a healthcare savings account that is growing daily. But I'm not pretending it's not an 'ACA' plan.
 
ObamacareFail said:
3G's most used fallback is to claim that his opponent has little knowledge of what his/her insurance covered before ACA. He wants to believe that nobody shopped around prior to Obamacare. That is his only defense to people pointing out how much cheaper their policies were compared to obamacare policies
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And your fallback is to claim everything in healthcare was flowers and puppies until the ACA came along, and now it's going to be horrible... NEXT year!
 
ludin said:
since when is a federal department a State? the HHS is a department of government it is not a state nor does it have the power to act as a state nor the authority
to represent a state. the SCOTUS was wrong which is the whole point.



the context was clear. only state based exchanges were to get subsidies. HHS is not a state.



as I have recently found out respect is earned not given and when the SCOTUS put politics above their job and above their oath of office then no they don't deserve respect.



it will be there once Obama is gone and we have a republican presidency.
the budget reconciliation process will be used to remove obamacare from the law.
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Well!

I'm not sure what to say -

You're essentially saying you know the law better than the Court, the Court is wrong, you have no respect for the Court, and you have no respect for the Court's decision.

Good for you this isn't a criminal or civil case involving yourself before a judge, because your attitude might be found to be a bit troubling for your result.

But fair enough.

Your opinion is one amongst 330M of your fellow Americans, it's just as valid as any, and you have every right to express it.

Perhaps the politics will workout in the future to give you the result you so desire.
 
Moot said:
The ACA would've been repealed at least 60x if the left didn't defend it. So I think they kinda know they "own" it.


But I adore how those silly republicans who try to take credit for the ACA in their own states and districts in order to get elected, don't you? .....



"....But in the same op-ed, [Scott] Walker did something odd: He bragged about how he used the Obamacare subsidies now on trial to offer more health coverage to low-income Wisconsin residents.

“Wisconsin is the only state that didn’t accept the Medicaid expansion funds and that has no gap in coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation,” Walker wrote. ”For the first time in state history, everyone living in poverty has access to coverage.”

How did Walker achieve this expanded coverage where other governors who turned down the Medicaid expansion failed? Short answer: Obamacare. Slightly longer answer: Obamacare subsidies and Wisconsin’s unusually generous existing health law...."​

Scott Walker won't fix Obamacare, but he will take credit for it | MSNBC

Hey, that GOP Obamacare alternative sure looks a lot like Obamacare « Hot Air


The SCOTUS literally saved their asses because if they had ruled the other way, it would've been the demise of the Republican party.
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I never heard of any republican politician bragging as to how wonderful that piece of crap is. 0bama said that everybody would be covered by ACA but not everybody wanted it so now it only covers a portion of the U.S. population, isn't that wonderful? Of course it is! Tremendous success! Wait till the premiums eventually sky rocket, they are going up in a few months.
 
NIMBY said:
Kind of like the trade pact the GOPs just voted for--think they read it?



Are there any GOP ideas in ACA?
And why hasn't the GOP "REPLACE" hit the House floor ?
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They have plans alright, get rid of that piece of garbage lol.

Seriously...they had turned in a good plan but Reid threw it in the trash.

Where have you been? in Uranus??
 
Chomsky said:
Well!

I'm not sure what to say -

You're essentially saying you know the law better than the Court, the Court is wrong, you have no respect for the Court, and you have no respect for the Court's decision.
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please tell me when the HHS became a state. you are avoiding the question and bringing up irrelevant information.
In this case I do know the law better than the SCOTUS. the HHS is not a state nor does it have any federal power to represent a state.

Respect is earned not given.
when the decision is in contradiction to the law and the constitution you bet I don't respect it nor should you as a matter of principle.

Good for you this isn't a criminal or civil case involving yourself before a judge, because your attitude might be found to be a bit troubling for your result.
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irrelevant to the discussion.

But fair enough.

Your opinion is one amongst 330M of your fellow Americans, it's just as valid as any, and you have every right to express it.

Perhaps the politics will workout in the future to give you the result you so desire.
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your avoidance of the argument is very telling.
 
Manc Skipper said:
The GOP remains hellbent on electoral suicide, and the Democrat voter base is "stupid"? (why the " " ?)
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Be careful. We don't want to talk the GOP off the ledge; we want them to jump!
 
ObamacareFail said:
No...only in your understanding. It is a myth that the hard core non-insured avoid going to the emergency room or a clinic until they are in an emergency situation or nearly at deaths door. They go as much or more then those who are insured, knowing that they will be billed based on ability to pay. Have you never heard of free clinics? And there were many uninsured who could afford insurance who simply opted to pay at the point of service.
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I don't know what to tell you man. The studies all found otherwise, we implemented the policy and it has in fact turned out as the studies predicted. Which is no surprise, since it had already played out that way in the states that did similar things earlier. Instead of trying to argue with me as if we were still back in 2009 trying to predict what would happen, you should be focusing on trying to figure out how you went wrong. Here is a suggestion for where you might start- you're just making random guesses rather than looking things up or reading studies and whatnot.
 
Conservative said:
When are you going to learn that you do not know every individual's own insurance issues? You have no idea what I had or what my benefits were but I will tell you nothing ACA offers comes even close. You buy the leftwing lies and one of these days you are going to realize it.

What is it about liberals that creates this kind of arrogance in that you know what is best for everyone else? Did you grow up expecting someone else to pay for your personal responsibility issues for that is what you are calling for with taxpayer dollars funding your healthcare insurance. With your attitude no wonder this country is over 18 trillion in debt
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In spite of all this bitching and moaning, I bet you ended up following the law. Same thing now, the repubs had their hearts set on this being overturned. Now that is hasn't been, you will again bitch and moan and still I bet you end up following the law.
 
Threegoofs said:
LOL.

I present facts. You rail on about something else when you can't dispute them.
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you present your opinion which is well not facts.

It's only 'arrogant' when I'm exaggerating what I know. I've already shown you I'm not. You had a lifetime cap on your insurance before, now you don't. (This is where you say 'Thanks, Obama!).
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this is incorrect. while there were some people that might have had lifetime caps on their insurance they were a minority.

in 2012 only 725,710 policies out of 16m individual plans were considered limited benefit.
about 1m more of those were student insurance policies that campuses offered to students that didn't have insurance.

so only about 11% of individual plans were limited benefit.
more of those types of plans were offered to low income workers to give them some kind of healthcare plan that they could afford.

Then you pretend to know what my health insurance situation is. I'm pleased to let you know I'm quite secure in a strong plan provided by my employer, with a healthcare savings account that is growing daily. But I'm not pretending it's not an 'ACA' plan.
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good for you. you have a plan you like. millions of other people had plans they liked and not only had it yanked out from under them but then had to pay the huge premium increases that followed it.

they were stuck with health services that they are never going to use but have to pay for them anyway which adds to the cost of their insurance.
 
ludin said:
please tell me when the HHS became a state. you are avoiding the question and bringing up irrelevant information.
In this case I do know the law better than the SCOTUS. the HHS is not a state nor does it have any federal power to represent a state.

Respect is earned not given.
when the decision is in contradiction to the law and the constitution you bet I don't respect it nor should you as a matter of principle.


irrelevant to the discussion.




your avoidance of the argument is very telling.
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Alright 'ludin',

I see you want to concentrate on the details (a specific word, 'state', in the singular) rather than the totality of the law (What is the logical intention? Is the detail in question cohesive with other details in the body of the law? Is there consistency?). This is what the Justices ruled on, not the specific detail you keep pounding on.

I saw these legal arguments made in the case docs when the case was submitted, and apparently these arguments prevailed, or the decision would not have been for the ACA.

I haven't reviewed the decision or opinion yet, but you have spurred me on to do this (I've been meaning to). If you haven't already, maybe you might look at the decision & the opinions to find out why your argument was ruled against.

6 judges ruled against you - I believe they all committed opinions.
 
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