• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

Show us then.

And please don't use things like lowering premiums for specific groups, or subsidizing premiums. Show us where people said that premiums (not growth) would be lower overall with the ACA.

I think we will see you are wrong.
Your lack of comprehension is not a failure of the program.

mmi just posted one of the examples for me:

"I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year." June 23, 2007
 
In the handful of states where data is available (Connecticut, Maryland, Michigan, Oregon, Virginia, Vermont, Washington state and Washington, D.C.), Pearson says the majority of people buying health coverage on exchanges won't face serious sticker shock.

"We have seen that about 6 percent average rate increases are expected for 2016," Pearson says.

As Avalere looks at the less expensive plans, she says, "We're seeing anywhere from a 5 percent increase for the lowest-cost plan available, to a 1 percent increase for the second-lowest-cost plan available. So we're really looking at very modest increases — very consistent with what we saw from 2014 to 2015." — "Health Insurance Premiums Will Go Up In 2016, But By How Much?" NPR, June 12, 2015​



I'll defer to yer judgement on that. I don't have any personal experience as a liar.

>>Choose the highest period of increase under another president's time and then you're able to state, see, I'm not half as bad as him!

What happened? Did you suffer a serious concussion?

Instead of moderate rate increases for one more year, the big rate increases have begun. They are particularly large among the health insurers with the most enrollment—the carriers with the most data.

Why are rates all over the place? There are a number of reasons.

The number of people signing up for Obamacare has varied considerably by state and is far below the level of penetration the industry typically needs to create a sustainable risk pool.

State sign-ups have varied with Vermont signing up 75% of the exchange eligible and Iowa only signing up 20%––insurers typically want to see 75% sign-up. Will the third open enrollment next year turn things around? This year’s results were not encouraging with the states having the best first year enrollment stalling out in 2015––California, Washington and New York.....snip~

Why Are The 2016 Obamacare Rate Increases So Large?
 
Absolutely. This was political all the way. If the scouts shot this down repubsall over there'd states would have their seats threatened in the next election as folks wondered where their insurance went.

Only 18 months of obamacare to go!
 
Prior to the ACA, there were reportedly about 45 million Americans without any health insurance. Following the inception of the ACA, as reported last September, that number had dropped to about 41 million.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/16/u...health-insurance-falls-survey-shows.html?_r=0

So, let's see. Even if we were to grant that all of the just under 4 million who are now insured are recipients of federal subsidies in states that don't provide an exchange - which is false since the majority of those 4 million are actually eligible now for Medicaid - you would have the difference between 41 million and 4 million. So your claim is that upwards of 50,000 of this 4 million are going to die because they lose the federal subsidies. Using your logic, about 500,000 are going to die with the federal subsidies because they still don't have insurance.

So, once again, the claim that removal of the federal subsidies would kill many many people is just utter nonsense.

The newly ensured numbers can be attributed almost entirely to the expansion of Medicaid which could have been done without touching my health insurance.
 
I don't know that's true, but I've read it reported by many liberals who followed the debate and were keyed into leadership. But it doesn't matter - there was zero, none, zilch chance there were 60 votes in the Senate for single payer. There probably weren't 50 legitimate votes if 50 would have done the job.

Same thing basically with a public option - that didn't have 60 votes. Liberals whined that Obama gave that away, but there were enough democrats loyal to the big insurers that 60 for that was never a realistic option according to those who actually counted the votes.
They got close to the public-option though - 59 votes in the Senate, and then as the last senator to commit, Senator Lieberman cast the deciding vote to kill-it.

Seeing as he resides in Hartford (representing CT), I was not greatly surprised (but really teed-off - the ACA badly needed the public-option in lieu of single-payer).
 
Last edited:
So what you are trying to say is that states may not be competent enough to run their own exchanges.

You must be ecstatic about the new SCOTUS ruling then..an opposite ruling would have required states to set up exchanges.

Moving the goalpost on dishonesty.....doesn't help your point of view.
 
Only 18 months of obamacare to go!

It's the law of the land now. The GOP will never overturn it. It'll be as toxic as going after social security.
 
It's the law of the land now. The GOP will never overturn it. It'll be as toxic as going after social security.

After only 18 months? Haha dream on buddy, dream on.

A republican in the White House is the death knell for obamacare...18 months to go!
 
I don't know if Texas will ever turn into a blue state or not; I don't see it happening anytime soon. One more good reason I'm moving to Colorado when my wife retires.


;)

Colorado (higher taxes): "The Connect for Health Colorado board of directors voted unanimously Thursday to raise the fees it charges on health insurance policies to bolster its finances as federal grants run out later this year. The state health insurance exchange raised the fee on 2016 plans purchased through its marketplace from the current 1.4 percent of premiums to 3.5 percent, the same rate charged on the federal exchange...Although insurance carriers pay the fees to the exchange, they acknowledge fees are passed on to consumers in one form or another...The fee increases are projected to help bring revenues to about $40 million in fiscal year 2015-16. It would cover operational expenses, but not capital costs, such as improving the computer system…"....snip~

Obamacare Updates: Tale of Fail from Coast to Coast - Guy Benson
 
After only 18 months? Haha dream on buddy, dream on.

A republican in the White House is the death knell for obamacare...18 months to go!

Well I guess if you're gonna dream... Dream big.
 
Show us then.

And please don't use things like lowering premiums for specific groups, or subsidizing premiums. Show us where people said that premiums (not growth) would be lower overall with the ACA.

I think we will see you are wrong.
Your lack of comprehension is not a failure of the program.

Remarks of Senator Barack Obama: Health Care Town Hall - Public Statements - The Voter's Self Defense System - Vote Smart

In an Obama administration, we'll lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year. And we'll do it by investing in disease prevention, not just disease management; by investing in a paperless health care system to reduce administrative costs; and by covering every single American and making sure that they can take their health care with them if they lose their job. We'll also reduce costs for business and their workers by picking up the tab for some of the most expensive illnesses. And we won't do all this twenty years from now, or ten years from now. We'll do it by the end of my first term as President of the United States.​

Remarks of Senator Barack Obama: Health Care - Public Statements - The Voter's Self Defense System - Vote Smart

We'll start by reducing premiums by as much as $2,500 per family - and we'll do it by taking the following five steps to lower costs throughout our health care system.​


No wait, that's right, that number has never been offered, because it didn't count.....


:lamo
 
After only 18 months? Haha dream on buddy, dream on.

A republican in the White House is the death knell for obamacare...18 months to go!

I'd indicate to you that in my view, looking at this realistically, the next major move to alter or replace the ACA will be a single payer system similar to those in every other G20 nation. Reform will not go backwards. The insurance companies won't stand for it and there will never, in the highly divided US political system,be sufficient votes to simply rescind it.

Your only chance was to have an honest Chief Justice with the integrity to do his job as he swore under oath - you lost that chance when he wavered and caved to vanity and ego, not wanting to go down in history as the Chief Justice who, rightly, overturned the unconstitutional ACA.
 
Is there any wonder why the majority of these "fact check" operations are arms of the liberal/progressive machine?

No need to wonder. Reactionaries don't rely on facts. The liberal/progressive machine exposes their lies.

the claim that removal of the federal subsidies would kill many many people is just utter nonsense.

The claim is that millions would lose health insurance if the ACA subsidies were eliminated. I'm not much interested in counting corpses. And I see you've now changed to "many many." Should I assume you'd be content with just "many"?

the links and discussion that premium rates were rising AS QUICKLY were based upon a link comparing them to the rises in one quarter of President Bush's term. The discussion was before and after Obamacare.

I don't know what yer talking about. I'm sure you don't either.

Check out black unemployment

You check it out.

black_unemp_1972_2015.jpg

The only time it's been lower in the past forty years is after the Clinton economy got rolling and in the Bush43 housing bubble.
 
Well I guess if you're gonna dream... Dream big.

Yep, you better pray for Hilary. Except liberals aren't Christian, so do whatever you do in place of prayer....wish upon a star maybe.

Hillary is the only chance obamacare has.

And you and o both know this is never happening, it'll be Marco Rubip or 8 more years of Bush
 
I'd indicate to you that in my view, looking at this realistically, the next major move to alter or replace the ACA will be a single payer system similar to those in every other G20 nation. Reform will not go backwards. The insurance companies won't stand for it and there will never, in the highly divided US political system,be sufficient votes to simply rescind it.

Your only chance was to have an honest Chief Justice with the integrity to do his job as he swore under oath - you lost that chance when he wavered and caved to vanity and ego, not wanting to go down in history as the Chief Justice who, rightly, overturned the unconstitutional ACA.

That's why Canada is a second rate country and America is a superpower. Watch how we do it.
 
The claim is that millions would lose health insurance if the ACA subsidies were eliminated. I'm not much interested in counting corpses. And I see you've now changed to "many many." Should I assume you'd be content with just "many"?

You stuck your nose into a conversation I was having with Pete, who claimed that many many people would die if the subsidies were removed and that's why the Supreme Court upheld it. I called that claim nonsense. I haven't changed any argument. Perhaps you'd like to comprehend what you're talking about or mind your own business. I proved your point wrong and now you whine about it.
 
No need to wonder. Reactionaries don't rely on facts. The liberal/progressive machine exposes their lies.

LOL. Actually, the Progressive Machine invents the best facts their money can buy. It depends on the gullible to buy them and spread them. As can be seen.
 
After only 18 months? Haha dream on buddy, dream on.

A republican in the White House is the death knell for obamacare...18 months to go!
I believe the GOP may also have to gain a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate as well, in order to do a full rescind.

But I'm not sure if there's procedural ways around it, or perhaps there's ways to chip away at it until causing it's collapse or inducing a more negative change in public perception.
 
I don't know if Texas will ever turn into a blue state or not; I don't see it happening anytime soon. One more good reason I'm moving to Colorado when my wife retires.

Well, your motivations for moving are completely different than motivations of the Millions of economic refugees that have come to Texas looking for jobs.

I can only guess but I bet one of your primary reasons for heading to Colorado has something to do with the availability of a certain mind altering substance.

People that are moving here are looking for something far more substantial than just another way to cook their brains.

Thank God there's Texas.
 
Yep, you better pray for Hilary. Except liberals aren't Christian, so do whatever you do in place of prayer....wish upon a star maybe.

Hillary is the only chance obamacare has.

And you and o both know this is never happening, it'll be Marco Rubip or 8 more years of Bush

If you say so there sport. ;)
 
That's why Canada is a second rate country and America is a superpower. Watch how we do it.

Canada is just one of the nations in the world different from the US in this regard. Notwithstanding, Canada, nor Germany, nor Britain, nor Japan, nor ............. are "second rate countries". Protection of one's citizenry, all of one's citizenry, is a barometer of first world status. That can come in many forms and is one of the primary functions of government.
 
Back
Top Bottom