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Thread: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Apparently not according to the SCOTUS. Therefore when the weight crushes the taxpayers, the SCOTUS won't have anything to say about it since the politicians will be squeezed as will their political careers and cushy Washington jobs when their campaigns are at risk. The question is, will the left and right be able to agree to change it for their own self preservation or will they continue to be deadlocked and let it die. That's a long term view because there's no law like this that has a short life but a long and painful one.
    Unlike Medicare, I think Obamacare will wither and die on the vine in the short run. The health insurance rate increases and the yet to strike midsize employer mandates will make obamacare a serious liability sooner rather then later. It will just seem like it's forever.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Unlike Medicare, I think Obamacare will wither and die on the vine in the short run. The health insurance rate increases and the yet to strike midsize employer mandates will make obamacare a serious liability sooner rather then later. It will just seem like it's forever.
    Yeah. *NEXT* year!

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    No, I not saying that at all. All rulings are not the same. Bringing down Obamacare would be especially messy as it would be the cause of many deaths of many people who depend upon Obamacare.
    that has been the argument against the Courts rolling back the unconstitutional expansion of the commerce clause from the FDR regime. Professor Steven Calabresi (NW Law school-a Scalia Disciple) noted at the University of Cincinnati Taft Lecture in the Fall of 2012 that Scalia and other "Faint hearted originalists" admit that most of the new deal was unconstitutional but also claim that ND jurisprudence has been around too long to overrule it. I am sure that a real conservative court may do the same thing with Obama care in say a decade.

    one advantages the left has is that "conservative" justices tend to be loathe to overturn existing-even if clearly unconstitutional-precedent
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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Any way you try to spin it, denial of care prior to Obamacare is an outright bald faced lie by the left. Your ignorance of that suggests that it is you that does not understand healthcare policy. The only explanation I can come up with is diehard partisanship on your part and the part of so much of the left. A democrat congress and president gave us this mess known as Obamacare and you will defend it until the end up time just for that reason. If a republican president and congress had enacted it, you and the left would be screaming bloody murder. You would be ripping it to shreds...screaming about mandates and massive rate increases. One example of that is the Patriot Act getting passed during the Bush Administration. The left nearly had a stroke and complained non-stop about it until Bush was out of office. Then Obama comes along and not only keeps it going, he expands on it. The lefts reaction is as follows:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzN3yJXlWrg
    Just re-read my post and see if you can tell where you got mixed up:

    In fact, more people having access to healthcare does cost less. That happens because it is far, far, far cheaper to treat things up front before they become catastrophic. We were not just letting those people with health problems die before. What we were doing is denying them care until they were on death's door, then dumping insane amounts of money trying to fix problems, many of which could have been fixed for 1% of less of the cost if they'd been to a doctor 2 years earlier.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    While reform was needed, doing nothing at all would have been less damaging then obamacare. And single payer is just "stupid". When you take the profit incentive out of medical care, you end up with very limited medical care and waiting lists and rationing follows.
    Single payer doesn't take the "profit incentive" out of medical care. You're confusing single payer with socialized medicine. Most single payer systems rely on or are entirely served by private, for profit providers, same as exists in the U.S. and all the profit seeking providers who serve Medicare patients. Single payer just shifts who pays, and frankly I couldn't care less whether my insurers is BCBS or Medicare, and neither does my 85yo mother in law who's getting a total hip in a few weeks....

    And we have tons of rationing now and we had more of it pre-ACA. We rationed by what kind of job you had, how much it paid, and whether your employer provided healthcare benefits. Medical care is limited, and VERY expensive, so the only question is HOW we are going to ration it and by how much.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Start with repealing Obamacare. The goal should have been to make health insurance better...not worse. Obamacare has made it horribly worse.
    OK, so the great idea from the right wing is to go back to the incredibly flawed system that cost double the rest of the world and left 10s of million UNinsured, and 10s of millions more with inadequate insurance that would fail as soon as they actually needed actual insurance, and cost double the rest of the world..... That's why I don't vote for the GOP anymore.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that has been the argument against the Courts rolling back the unconstitutional expansion of the commerce clause from the FDR regime. Professor Steven Calabresi (NW Law school-a Scalia Disciple) noted at the University of Cincinnati Taft Lecture in the Fall of 2012 that Scalia and other "Faint hearted originalists" admit that most of the new deal was unconstitutional but also claim that ND jurisprudence has been around too long to overrule it. I am sure that a real conservative court may do the same thing with Obama care in say a decade.

    one advantages the left has is that "conservative" justices tend to be loathe to overturn existing-even if clearly unconstitutional-precedent
    In another decade it will be even tougher to bring it down. Plus if Hillary wins next year there is good chance she can turn a right leaning to a left leaning court.


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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Be my guest. However taxes are not unconstitutional,.
    Lots of people disagree, and how does one determine this? If you look to the courts, then taxes are constitutional, but if you look to the courts so were both decisions made last week. Either the Constitutionality of something is determined by the SC or it's not. If it's not, then I don't see why we don't get to pick and choose what we decide is or is not. Like a laundry list. "I don't like it, or disagree with the SC on that issue, so, it must be unconsitutional and I don't have to follow it!!" That's what you suggested, and I'm just playing by the same rules.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    In another decade it will be even tougher to bring it down. Plus if Hillary wins next year there is good chance she can turn a right leaning to a left leaning court.
    you already have a left leaning court. the four democrats always vote for the Administration and 2 of the "right wingers" actually aren't constrained by the party that appointed them
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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Every developed nation with any version of single payer also has waiting lists and rationing. And it's not cheaper. It merely costs the government less, because the government is providing less. And the results are not better.
    So, you have spent about zero time actually investigating healthcare in the rest of the world. Thanks for confirming that.

    We have waiting lists and rationing. If you're poor, you don't GET ON any waiting list.

    It is cheaper. We spend 16-17% of GDP government and private expenditures. The world average is about 8-9%, and the next most expensive is roughly 12-13. And our governments (state and Fed) spend more than many industrialized countries with universal care. Only difference is individuals in the U.S. spend FAR more, on top of already large government expenditures.

    And the results are outstanding. Better on many measures, worse on others. Generally we're terrible at chronic illness that afflict by far the most people, but we do better on acute illnesses like some cancers and the very highest end treatments. It's a trade off like the rest of life.

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