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Thread: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So it is the will of the justices and not the will of the people but probably only when the ruling supports your position? You seem a little conflicted here. It wasn't the will of the people that enacted Obamacare it was a socialist/liberal Democrat Party alone that did it and they lost the House and ultimately the Congress over it. I repeat. you want the will of the people on things like Obamacare, then put it on the ballot. This remains a state issue regardless of what activist justices think.
    It is so strange the way you guys seem to lack any understanding of the US's system of government at all. Do you live in the US?

    In the US, the Constitution lays out a division of responsibility between the branches. The Constitution grants certain powers to each branch. All the members of all the branches represent the people through different mechanisms. Interpreting the law, including the Constitution, is the job of the judicial branch. If a question of changing the law comes up, that goes to the legislature. If a question of interpreting the law comes up, that goes to the judicial branch.

    We have a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. Direct democracy doesn't work very well at all. States that implement ballot measures usually come to regret it. For example, if you put a proposition on the ballot asking voters if they want to spend $10 million on a new rail station, just about exactly the same number of people will support it as if you put it on there with a $10 billion pricetag. People just don't have the time to sit and work through all the policy details. It works much better to have the people pick representatives and have them learn all the details on the people's behalf.

    Another problem direct democracy states tend to run into is voters requiring them to spend a ton on various things, requiring them to keep taxes low and then denying them the ability to borrow. So, you end up in this weird situation where the legislature has no choice but to slash core services while being required to keep spending on whatever frivolous things, and keep the tax rates that the ballot measures addressed low and make up for it with whatever avenues are available, like setting super high DMV fees or whatnot to balance the books... Policy details just isn't the kind of thing a person can intuit the correct answer to in 15 minutes a year sitting on their couch. It's the kind of thing you want teams of accountants and analysts and whatnot pouring over for years.

    The idea that representative democracy works better isn't just my personal opinion, that's one of the core ideas the nation was founded on and it has worked out quite well. Direct democracy has sometimes worked out ok, but generally only at a very small scale. Representative democracy has a far better track record.
    Last edited by tuhaybey; 06-27-15 at 02:08 PM.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Yet the only candidate the GOP can put up with a ghost of a chance against her is unlikely to make it through the hustings, even if he manages to lose his last name in the process..
    Which goes to the point that Gruber made, the Democrat voter base is "stupid."

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    It is so strange the way you guys seem to lack any understanding of the US's system of government at all. Do you live in the US?

    In the US, the Constitution lays out a division of responsibility between the branches. The Constitution grants certain powers to each branch. All the members of all the branches represent the people through different mechanisms. Interpreting the law, including the Constitution, is the job of the judicial branch. If a question of changing the law comes up, that goes to the legislature. If a question of interpreting the law comes up, that goes to the judicial branch.

    We have a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. Direct democracy doesn't work very well at all. States that implement ballot measures usually come to regret it. For example, if you put a proposition on the ballot asking voters if they want to spend $10 million on a new rail station, just about exactly the same number of people will support it as if you put it on there with a $10 billion pricetag. People just don't have the time to sit and work through all the policy details. It works much better to have the people pick representatives and have them learn all the details on the people's behalf.

    Another problem direct democracy states tend to run into is voters requiring them to spend a ton on various things, requiring them to keep taxes low and then denying them the ability to borrow. So, you end up in this weird situation where the legislature has no choice but to slash core services while being required to keep spending on whatever frivolous things, and keep the tax rates that the ballot measures addressed low and make up for it with whatever avenues are available, like setting super high DMV fees or whatnot to balance the books... Policy details just isn't the kind of thing a person can intuit the correct answer to in 15 minutes a year sitting on their couch. It's the kind of thing you want teams of accountants and analysts and whatnot pouring over for years.
    Sorry but it seems to be that it is you that fails to understand the role of the various governments we have. Fact or fiction, our Founders created a small central govt. with a part time legislature?

    We do have a Representative Democracy that has gotten away from the Constitutional principles our Founders laid out and it is people like you who are liberal/socialist activists whose goal is to destroy this country and the foundation upon which it was built.

    What we have here now are a vocal minority imposing their will on the American people though activists Justices and thus fundamentally changing this country into the European socialist economies all of which have failed. Keep it up and when it is too late, the people of TX will be the ones left standing.

    It really is a shame that the principles of risk taking, personal responsibility, individual wealth creation, and neighbor helping neighbor are lost in the liberal agenda.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sorry but it seems to be that it is you that fails to understand the role of the various governments we have. Fact or fiction, our Founders created a small central govt. with a part time legislature?

    We do have a Representative Democracy that has gotten away from the Constitutional principles our Founders laid out and it is people like you who are liberal/socialist activists whose goal is to destroy this country and the foundation upon which it was built.

    What we have here now are a vocal minority imposing their will on the American people though activists Justices and thus fundamentally changing this country into the European socialist economies all of which have failed. Keep it up and when it is too late, the people of TX will be the ones left standing.

    It really is a shame that the principles of risk taking, personal responsibility, individual wealth creation, and neighbor helping neighbor are lost in the liberal agenda.
    Somebody sure got you all worked up lol.

    The founders didn't say the government has to be a particular "size" or specify hours legislators should work or something in the Constitution. Those sorts of decisions are left to the people acting through their representatives. The Constitution lays out the process of governing, the powers the federal government has and the rights the people have. Beyond that, they left it up to us to decide.

    And, of course, if they hadn't left those kind of things up to us- if they had locked in specific policy approaches and whatnot- then the country couldn't have survived past whenever those policies stopped making sense. They knew that of course and talked about it extensively and frequently.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    Somebody sure got you all worked up lol.

    The founders didn't say the government has to be a particular "size" or specify hours legislators should work or something in the Constitution. Those sorts of decisions are left to the people acting through their representatives. The Constitution lays out the process of governing, the powers the federal government has and the rights the people have. Beyond that, they left it up to us to decide.

    And, of course, if they hadn't left those kind of things up to us- if they had locked in specific policy approaches and whatnot- then the country couldn't have survived past whenever those policies stopped making sense. They knew that of course and talked about it extensively and frequently.
    No, the Founders knew however what you fail to recognize, power corrupts, and when you have a 3.9 trillion dollar govt. as Obama wants you create a corrupt power that will destroy itself. The Founders knew where the power belonged, at the state level, closest to the people. The Congressional Representatives learned rapidly that they could buy votes and keep power for life while looking for their next job rather than doing their current job.

    It is the elected officials that took more and more power and the stupid electorate allowing them. Term limits is the answer. The states learned it when will you and others? Oh, wait, you are getting what you want through activist justices and Congressional Representatives taking on personal responsibility issues that alone or with your neighbor you cannot sell to the local electorate.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Which goes to the point that Gruber made, the Democrat voter base is "stupid."
    The GOP remains hellbent on electoral suicide, and the Democrat voter base is "stupid"? (why the " " ?)
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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The GOP remains hellbent on electoral suicide, and the Democrat voter base is "stupid"? (why the " " ?)
    Apparently the 2010-2012-2014 election results show that the Democrat base doesn't get it and it is proven here everyday. Keep pissing off the majority by passing and signing partisan legislation and the end result is going to be fun to watch. There is a silent majority in this country and that majority has about had it with liberal actions and implementation of policies contrary to the vision of our Founders.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Yet the only candidate the GOP can put up with a ghost of a chance against her is unlikely to make it through the hustings, even if he manages to lose his last name in the process..
    Democrats giving away tickets to Hillary Clinton speech - Business Insider

    Yup, the excitement for Hillary is building .....
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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No, the Founders knew however what you fail to recognize, power corrupts, and when you have a 3.9 trillion dollar govt. as Obama wants you create a corrupt power that will destroy itself. The Founders knew where the power belonged, at the state level, closest to the people. The Congressional Representatives learned rapidly that they could buy votes and keep power for life while looking for their next job rather than doing their current job.

    It is the elected officials that took more and more power and the stupid electorate allowing them. Term limits is the answer. The states learned it when will you and others? Oh, wait, you are getting what you want through activist justices and Congressional Representatives taking on personal responsibility issues that alone or with your neighbor you cannot sell to the local electorate.
    That perception- that the founders like meant to put some limit in there on the budget or number of staff or something, but somehow just forgot, is actually pretty whacky. They thought very long and hard about what rules to set and they did a pretty good job figuring out what to lock in for the future and what to leave up to future generations to adjust as needed.

    Are you aware of who the founders are? Like, how they became the founders? They were a committee of the Continental Congress that was formed for the purpose of figuring out ways to make the federal government stronger and more powerful, particularly against the states, because the government was failing from being too weak. They ultimately decided that they couldn't do enough to strengthen it under the Articles of Confederation, so they broke away and started from scratch with the Constitution. They were keenly aware that over time, people might learn that they might need a stronger, bigger government because they were in the process of doing exactly that as they wrote the Constitution.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    That perception- that the founders like meant to put some limit in there on the budget or number of staff or something, but somehow just forgot, is actually pretty whacky. They thought very long and hard about what rules to set and they did a pretty good job figuring out what to lock in for the future and what to leave up to future generations to adjust as needed.

    Are you aware of who the founders are? Like, how they became the founders? They were a committee of the Continental Congress that was formed for the purpose of figuring out ways to make the federal government stronger and more powerful, particularly against the states, because the government was failing from being too weak. They ultimately decided that they couldn't do enough to strengthen it under the Articles of Confederation, so they broke away and started from scratch with the Constitution. They were keenly aware that over time, people might learn that they might need a stronger, bigger government because they were in the process of doing exactly that as they wrote the Constitution.
    No, the problem is a basic lack of understanding on your part as to what the role of the Central govt. is and the vision our Founders had that is well documented. You further are always looking to a massive central govt to implement a one size fits all Federal program to implement programs you cannot sell in your state. It is typical liberalism/socialism and a desire to actually destroy the free enterprise/capitalism economy we have since it seems to be the liberal attitude of equal outcome because of what some others have achieved and we can only have those rich liberal elites destroying the economy they benefited from. In other words they get theirs so let's destroy the system that generated that wealth.

    You people either have no idea what you are doing or do and that is what makes you dangerous

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