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Thread: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You made a specific claim: "Being insured and being able to afford treatment are two separate things. That is why disapproval remains high."

    You showed me a poll about disapproval, but nothing to shed light on why. That's why I asked for the internals, that would go deeper than the top line number.
    So you don't think rising health care costs and bigger higher oit of pocket costs are a reasons to not like the AFFORDABLE Care Act?

    It must be the typeface on the website...

    If it was better then, the the GOP plan should be "Repeal." Period.
    Nope. Just because the current plan is crap doesn't mean that the old way, though better, doesn't need improvement.

    Not even the GOPers think that works with the public, which is why they added the "replace" to their slogan, with a plan that is continually
    Right, because they believe the old system could be improved on, but the PPACA wasn't an improvement.


    As to the 'have insurance but can't afford treatment' claim - what is your evidence? The ACA caps total out of pocket, including premiums. So I'm not really sure why someone insured (who wasn't before) is less able to afford insurance than they were when uninsured. Is the percentage of income cap too high? And if the cost to insureds is lowered, how is that paid for, by taxpayers though higher healthcare related taxes or by less covered care? One of the two...

    I've helped several previously uninsured through the ACA process. A typical one is a lady who works for us occasionally. She's reasonably healthy, makes about $15,000, and her total premiums plus out of pocket was capped at about $60 per month for a silver plan. It's not great insurance, it's the cheapest silver plan, but she is FAR better off, and she'd tell you that. I'm sure others are worse off, but that's going to be true of any change to the system.
    You use a person in poverty as your example. Nobody is arguing that those in poverty don't get heavily subsidized in the new program. It is the people above the subsidy line, who have been tasked with funding all those subsidies, that are getting screwed.

    [progressivefauxoutrage]Also, why aren't you heartless jerks where you work paying for her insurance?1! And why are people who work for you living in poverty?! You monster. [/progressivefauxoutrage]
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    You gave numbers that you said were "through 2014," implying the period from the program's inception through the end of 2014. If you meant otherwise, you should have said so.
    Hah, so do you think the private insurance numbers recovered after open enrollment?

    And it gets worse. The point of the exchanges has always been to pool risk and to have higher wage earners (read: middle class) fund the subsidies of those who people who can't afford them. The trouble is, by HHS's own numbers, as of last month, 87% of all exchange users qualified for a subsidy leaving only 13% of Exchange plan members to fund the other 87%.

    The ACA subsidies to insurers for losses derived from Exchange plans will end in 2017. Do you think things will get better after that?
    Last edited by jmotivator; 06-26-15 at 08:28 AM.
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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Yea, the " side " that said we could keep our Dr's and Insurance.

    The side that said premiums would fall by 2500 dollars.

    ...
    The $2500 savings for a family of 4 was only if a public option was offered.
    Senator Obama described his plan on his Senator website before he was elected President.

    Every American has the right to affordable, comprehensive and portable health coverage. My plan will ensure that all Americans have health care coverage through their employers, private health plans, the federal government, or the states. My plan builds on and improves our current insurance system, which most Americans continue to rely upon, and creates a new public health plan for those currently without coverage. Under my plan, Americans will be able to choose to maintain their current coverage if they choose to. For those without health insurance I will establish a new public insurance program, and provide subsides to afford care for those who need them. My plan includes a mandate that all children have health care coverage and I will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs to help ensure we cover all kids. My plan requires all employers to contribute towards health coverage for their employees or towards the cost of the public plan. Under my plan a typical family will save $2,500 each year. We will realize tremendous savings within the health care system from improving efficiency and quality and reducing wasted expenditures system-wide. Specifically, these savings will result from investments in health information technology, improvements in prevention and management of chronic conditions, increased insurance industry competition and reduced industry overhead, the provision of federal reinsurance for catastrophic coverage, and reduced spending on uncompensated care.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The $2500 savings for a family of 4 was only if a public option was offered.
    Senator Obama described his plan on his Senator website before he was elected President.
    His description of "public insurance program" is what the exchanges are. Stop trying to pull a Roberts and change the meaning of words.

    By 2019, the only options everyone will have will be high deductible, HSA-eligible plans available via the exchange.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    So you don't think rising health care costs and bigger higher oit of pocket costs are a reasons to not like the AFFORDABLE Care Act? :

    It must be the typeface on the website...
    No you've made another claim - "higher out of pocket costs." For whom? In what circumstances. The people I've helped went from unlimited potential out of pocket costs to a defined percentage of their income, premiums plus out of pocket for covered services. How is a defined percentage of their income higher than what could easily be 50 or 100 times their income for a serious illness?

    Nope. Just because the current plan is crap doesn't mean that the old way, though better, doesn't need improvement.
    Great, we're all anxiously awaiting the GOP 'improvements.'

    Right, because they believe the old system could be improved on, but the PPACA wasn't an improvement.
    Improvements to be named later. Got it.

    You use a person in poverty as your example. Nobody is arguing that those in poverty don't get heavily subsidized in the new program. It is the people above the subsidy line, who have been tasked with funding all those subsidies, that are getting screwed.
    It depends. Lots of folks above the subsidy line couldn't get insurance because of pre-existing conditions, and now they can. And opponents of the ACA kept running stories about those getting "screwed" and many times those getting screwed actually weren't. The people who ARE paying higher premiums are those who are very healthy on very limited plans that were ended with ACA, but they're only good with those plans if they don't get actually sick and need real insurance, and instead just need a prepaid health plan. And if you're in an employer plan and are healthy, you're also getting screwed because your premiums cover the old and sick in that company, and the women having babies, etc. When you get old and get employer insurance, the youngsters subsidize your old saggy rear end.

    So you're making these broad statements that just aren't rooted in the facts. Yes, there are winners and losers. Whatever "to be named later" plan the GOP comes up with will also have lots of losers. That's life when we're dealing with healthcare.

    Also, why aren't you heartless jerks where you work paying for her insurance?1! And why are people who work for you living in poverty?! You monster.
    Sarcasm noted, but she does landscaping, and works hard in her own little company, for us about 8 days/year. And she has COPD. I'm happy part of my taxes fund her healthcare. Same with the woman who cleans our house every two weeks.
    Last edited by JasperL; 06-26-15 at 08:44 AM.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Hah, so do you think the private insurance numbers recovered after open enrollment?

    And it gets worse. The point of the exchanges has always been to pool risk and to have higher wage earners (read: middle class) fund the subsidies of those who people who can't afford them. The trouble is, by HHS's own numbers, as of last month, 87% of all exchange users qualified for a subsidy leaving only 13% of Exchange plan members to fund the other 87%.

    The ACA subsidies to insurers for losses derived from Exchange plans will end in 2017. Do you think things will get better after that?
    It's not how it works. The subsidies are funded by taxes not the other insureds. The issue with the exchanges is the low number of young healthy people signing up - they do subsidize the old and sick just like in every employer plan, and unless they join up, the rates will be higher to reflect the actual cost of insuring older, sicker people.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    Only conservatives appear to think that the economics of mandated large-scale insurance risk pools somehow magically change when proposed by the Heritage foundation but get implemented by Democrats.
    For some reason and over time personal responsibility is a lost cause for far too many. It doesn't seem to matter that the Federal Govt. has created an 18.2 trillion debt, more than our entire economy and people like you have no problem giving them more money to waste. Brilliant!!

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    It is accomplishing neither. It certainly is not improving healthcare and it is certainly not cheaper.
    If only you had studies to support that claim...or you could just continue to ignore the research which shows the opposite:

    Is Obamacare Working?
    Morning Plum: The Obamacare exchanges are working - The Washington Post
    Clearest sign Obamacare is working? - CBS News
    20 Obamacare Stats Republicans Don't Want You to See | Mother Jones

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by MrT View Post
    LOL, absolutely amazing how opinions from sources you want to believe somehow are fact in your world when the reality is Obamacare hasn't even been fully implemented but it has done one great thing for people like you, created part time jobs rather than full time ones. Brilliant. What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty?

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The $2500 savings for a family of 4 was only if a public option was offered.
    Senator Obama described his plan on his Senator website before he was elected President.
    Public option ?

    You mean single payer ? I didn't realize there were premiums paid in Countries that had Nationalized healthcare.

    And no way would a Family of four save 2500 dollars if we had single payer. Its not free Healthcare.

    Tax rates would have to be jacked up through the roof to pay for it. On Consumers and on Corporations ( same thing )

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