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Thread: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

  1. #401
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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    here's one thing i don't get that i haven't seen discussed.

    roberts' bit about "they intended to improve the health care market - not destroy it" (paraphrasing); and all the other talk about how invalidating the fed subsidies would be "disruptive" and therefore the SC shouldn't rule against the government here because of the "chaos" that such a ruling would cause...

    what about the original implementation of the law? estimates of somewhere north of 5-6 million people got thrown off their existing plans (despite administration assurances to the contrary) because of the law passing in the first place?

    it seems like it was fine to disrupt the marketplace to implement this, but somehow it is an unthinkable horror to disrupt the marketplace to remove pieces of it? i don't get it

    and in the end, we're talking about paperwork. only in rare and tragic cases did people actually die because they couldn't get required medical treatment because their paperwork was tangled up.


    i thought the SC was just supposed to say if a law was constitutional or not - NOT to decide that certain consequences would be inconvenient (a concern that apparently escaped them upon implementation)

    by the way they could have just opened up the legislation and clarified the language in question here. wonder why they didn't want congress to do that.... /sarc

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    And why hasn't the GOP "REPLACE" hit the House floor ?
    I think we all know the answer to that....there isn't one.

    At least, not one that could get backing to pass.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    There is no voter who would oppose the Repub to protect ACA who would ever have voted for the Repub anyway.
    That doesn't really follow. A voter could think he wants the ACA repealed, but then not like the actuality of losing access to healthcare or seeing their costs go way up, and then vote against the Republican who caused that to happen. Until a policy change is implemented, voters vote based on what they think that change will do. Once the policy change is implemented, they vote based on how it actually worked out. It is not at all uncommon for voters to punish a politician because something they wanted the politicians to do didn't turn out to be a good idea.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Americans are whiny, litigious, narcissists still coasting off of the accomplishments of the WWII generation.
    I'd say some are. You see them as being uniform?

    >>we are attracted to whiny narcissists. We put one in the White House two elections running because he talked pretty to us

    Or maybe becuae he convinced people that he would lead the country back, as he has, from the disastrous Great Recession that resulted from the policies of people like Dickhead Chaingang.

    >>We haven't been able to "win" a war since the 1940's because we get bored and because it's hard, and we don't do "hard" anymore.

    We fought the war in Korea to a stalemate rather than a victory because of the arrogance of MacArthur. We lost the war in Vietnam because the government in Saigon was highly corrupt and grossly incompetent, and therefore lacked popular support. We won the First Gulf War. The outcomes in Iraq and Afghanistan are arguably undecided. And in any event, war is typically an indication of failed foreign policy.

    >>The Middle East, North Africa, Eastern Europe, and Central Asia are on fire

    Sounds like Gunk Blech nonsense. There is widespread instability in parts of the Middle East and North Africa. There's trouble in part of eastern Ukraine. Outside of Afghanistan, where's the "fire" in central Asia?

    >>America is spending her time on whether or not people who fly flags are mean

    The Confederate flag was largely ignored in the South until the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s. It was then dusted off and used as a symbol of ugly, racist hatred. It should go back into the historical museums.

    >>dudes who want to touch each others' penises before cutting them off.

    I don't hear a lot of that in my circles. I can't speak for yours.

    >>I and my children will be part of the ruling class in the dilapidated, sad, failed little angry self-absorbed society who shares a name with America.

    I don't think you'll be ruling me.

    >>And those who suffer? I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh, because they will have gotten exactly what they voted for.

    I expect the laugh will be on you in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Mostly due to obamacare, the democrats have lost control of both houses of congress.
    You offer no evidence to back that up. I figure the switch in the House in 2010 was in part the result of misconceptions/lies about the ACA. The loss of the Senate was largely the result of which seats were open.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is correct. A couple of quickly grabbed demonstrations:
    I agreed that a high school diploma is critically important. But on "Family Type," the categories are "Single Parent" and "Two Parent." Nothing there about marriage.

    >>The biggest one is "Work 40 Hours (or more) a Week"

    What if you can't find decent-paying FT work? Is that a "decision"?

    >>the second biggest one is "Don't Get Divorced".

    If yer not married, you can't get divorced.

    >>You don't see how (for example) slashing housing costs in half can result in increased disposable income?

    Again, yer conflating not being married with single parenthood. Attempting to raise a family on yer own is, I would agree, a factor that can make it much more difficult to escape poverty.

    >>Married couples (and especially married men) demonstrate increased productivity, long term planning, and greater academic accomplishment than their single peers.

    Is this as opposed to all single men, or in relation to men in two-adult families?

    >>In the United States, having parents who are married reduces a child's likelihood of poverty by 82%

    I'm suspicious of a result like that from the Heritage Foundation. I suspect they may be making the same, as I see it, error you are.

    >>Evidence from both the Left and the right back me up on this, particularly about marriage

    Again, I think yer confusing being unmarried with being a single parent.

    >>but also more generally about the extent to which poverty is a result of behavior.

    Behaviours such as?

    >>Among those who finish high school, get married, have children only within a marriage and go to work, the odds of long-term poverty are virtually nil.

    But I'd say that doesn't speak to people who finish high school, don't get married, raise children (if they have any) in a two-adult household, and work low-wage jobs.

    In general, I think yer study has been neither careful nor thorough.
    Last edited by mmi; 06-25-15 at 08:46 PM.
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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah. Because whereas Ronald Reagan barely knew how to run anything, having only been a multi-time governor and involved in national-level politics for decades. Rubio is a first term senator. And the last one of those who we hired to be President worked out just awesome.




    I believe you need to re-read Jeremiah and Lamentations, and consider what the Divine Hand does to nations who reject Him.



    we have liabilities of over $100 Trillion and we only own $85 Trillion worth of stuff. When was the last time America had a negative net value?



    Oh yeah, and we're doing awesome at that.

    Wait, wait, wait... no. No, we're not, because it's hard. Instead we are whining about being the only superpower in the world and trying to take our ball and go home.



    Yup. We are brilliant at sharing funny pictures of cats and finding ways to sell advertising next to those pictures of cats. I do have to give us that.



    Oh goody. Because if there is one thing I really want to brag on, it's American media.



    No we aren't. We are absent on the world stage. We aren't interested in the world stage. We think the world stage is annoying, it's a bore, and besides, george bush, like, lied about saddam in order to invade us on 9/11, or something. The Navy is down to the smallest that it's been since World War One, and we're slashing the Air Force, Army, and Marines as well.

    You have to have will to be dominant, and we don't have the will. Take a look at any one of our major opponents across the world and ask yourself between Iran, Russia, and China, which one of these nations' leadership really worries that America might come kick their butt in an expensive, bloody war, if they push us too much?



    We are 10th on the list of debt to GDP. You want to know who has a lower debt than us? Canada. Want to know who has a debt even lower than theirs? Australia.

    But that's just debt to GDP. Debt to GDP is only the beginning. When you compare our debt to how much we collect in revenue, we're literally right behind Greece. Then when you compare our unfunded liabilities to GDP....



    Yup. See the point immediately above this one.



    true enough.

    But you know who I would trade places with? Canada or Australia. Because they are more conservative than we are.



    Sure. After all he's got good hair and he talks pretty - obviously he's going to be a brilliant administrator with qualifications like that He'll say the magic words to the Money Tree they keep behind the White House and all of a sudden we'll get 5% growth in GDP, the boomers will discover that they really did save a million dollars a piece for retirement and just forgot to report it, everyone will start marrying their childrens' other parent, and we'll pass entitlement reform allowing for privatized social security accounts to boot. The laws of mathematics will be suspended just for us because we think we're so special.
    Greetings, cpwill. *waves hello*

    Excellent post in every way, sir! :

  6. #406
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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Oh whah. Conservatives are pissed because six out of nine justices refused to deny health insurance to millions of Americans over a minor drafting error.

    The pain. The pain.

  7. #407
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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    SCOTUS did the GOP a favor.

    ObamaCare isn't going to morph into a good law. Its not going to get better or cheaper with time.

    Its not going to turn into the lies and misrepresentations that the Democrat party and the President fed to the American citizens before they shoved this monstrosity down our throats.

    Its substantial impact on the economy isn't going to diminish, and now its the Democrats law all over again.

    If SCOTUS had ruled the other way it would be up to the GOP to " fix " the unfixable.

    Then, anything and everything from that point on would have been blamed on the GOP.

    Since they don't have a veto proof majority they couldn't have passed effective legislation anyway.

    Lefties are celebrating ? Why ?

    This law was so unpopular, so hated that it was unmentionable during the 2014 midterms by any Democrat that wanted to keep their jobs.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    That doesn't really follow. A voter could think he wants the ACA repealed, but then not like the actuality of losing access to healthcare or seeing their costs go way up, and then vote against the Republican who caused that to happen. Until a policy change is implemented, voters vote based on what they think that change will do. Once the policy change is implemented, they vote based on how it actually worked out. It is not at all uncommon for voters to punish a politician because something they wanted the politicians to do didn't turn out to be a good idea.
    Believe as you wish. I think you're wrong.
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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Actually, I hope Republicans continue to ignore the problems liberal/progressives created in their unilateral PPACA boondoggle. Much better to say, "don't ask us, talk to the Democrats who created it."

    The Nation deserves to see how Democrats do things.
    I agree.... on one hand, we have a forward thinking party that actually gets things done; on the other hand we have a party that refuses to live in the reality of the present and continually tries to legislate us into the past. As one once said "When I want to go forward, I put the car in "D" and when I want to backup, I put the car in in "R", I find this works in the voting booth, as well."
    Last edited by upsideguy; 06-25-15 at 09:10 PM.

  10. #410
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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    An accurate and irrelevent statement. Congratulations.
    You may feel that interstate highways are irrelevant. Many would disagree.

    >>Send that to me in a check or Paypal would ya? It's more like, $0, but if you want to give me money I won't say no.

    No, that's the level at which you are being subsidised. It's what you owe, not what you are owed.

    >>Don't care where it grew from. Irrelevant. We're talking about money, not history.

    History leads to the present. You can decide not to care, but that would be irrelevant.

    >>It didn't help me, I don't work in the Auto Industry.

    It would be much more expensive or even impossible for you to maintain yer car if the industry had gone under.

    >>It wouldn't be operating if it didn't mandate by LAW people must pay taxes.

    So what? People pay them or they don't. The point is that the vast majority do. Yer emphasis on taxes being mandatory does not address the question of whether or not you benefit from the taxes paid by others.

    >>I don't have a choice but to pay taxes - it's that or go to jail.

    Going to jail (prison, more likely) is a choice, but again the legal requirement to pay taxes is irrelevant in this context.

    >>And the sky is blue, dogs bark and water is wet.

    The sky isn't always blue, not all dogs bark, and I don't think of ice as being wet. But these concluding observations of yers are pretty much consistent with one aspect of the rest of yer comments — seemingly pointless.
    "I loved him. You loved him. What good have we done him? Love. Look at yourself. They have a name for faces like that." — Anna Schmidt, in The Third Man ……Anna walks away

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