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Thread: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

  1. #171
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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    don't read the news do you.

    Millennials
    O-Care premiums to skyrocket | TheHill

    and the big one for next year
    Obamacare: 2016 sticker shock | WashingtonExaminer.com

    so yes your post is irrelevant in the face of facts.

    Obamacare Increases Large Employers' Health Costs - Forbes

    yep your post is even more irrelevant.
    In the handful of states where data is available (Connecticut, Maryland, Michigan, Oregon, Virginia, Vermont, Washington state and Washington, D.C.), Pearson says the majority of people buying health coverage on exchanges won't face serious sticker shock.

    "We have seen that about 6 percent average rate increases are expected for 2016," Pearson says.

    As Avalere looks at the less expensive plans, she says, "We're seeing anywhere from a 5 percent increase for the lowest-cost plan available, to a 1 percent increase for the second-lowest-cost plan available. So we're really looking at very modest increases — very consistent with what we saw from 2014 to 2015." — "Health Insurance Premiums Will Go Up In 2016, But By How Much?" NPR, June 12, 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Look, it's an easy lie to engineer.
    I'll defer to yer judgement on that. I don't have any personal experience as a liar.

    >>Choose the highest period of increase under another president's time and then you're able to state, see, I'm not half as bad as him!

    What happened? Did you suffer a serious concussion?
    "I loved him. You loved him. What good have we done him? Love. Look at yourself. They have a name for faces like that." — Anna Schmidt, in The Third Man ……Anna walks away

  2. #172
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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Bull****. Discounts Obama's closed door meetings with insurance execs and promising the act would not include single payer well BEFORE any congressional debate.
    Do you have any sources for this, clownboy?

    (and I'm not asking this in antagonism)

    Because I too have been concerned with the President's early meetings, but have generally bought into the argument that the lesson learned from HillaryCare's failure was: "The insurance & hospital industries killed it, so they need to firstly be brought onboard this time". But I still have some skepticism, especially in light of some of the President's actions since then (the TPP not being the least).

    A decision on no single-payer or public option in those meetings, if a true, would be heinous IMO, unless that was truly the only way forward. I don't believe that occurred due to seeing the public option come up for vote, and losing by only one vote (Sen Joe Lieberman - Hartford CT - insurance capital of the country).
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    I'll defer to yer judgement on that. I don't have any personal experience as a liar.
    A statement you prove untrue as you employ yet another liar's tactic with this post - move those goalposts. If you read the sources you agree with that premiums are not rising as quickly as they were, you'd know they were using rises during certain quarters of President Bush's time as a contrast to determine that.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Yep, his decisions have led to some very entertaining Mid-term results.

    He's keeping the Albatross alive and that means we get to look forward to another election cycle of Democrats avoiding ObamaCare like the plague....and then losing.

    Hey, remember when the Democrats were going to turn Texas " Blue " ??

    Lol ! We added more GOP seats. We're Redder than we were before.
    I don't know if Texas will ever turn into a blue state or not; I don't see it happening anytime soon. One more good reason I'm moving to Colorado when my wife retires.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Do you have any sources for this, clownboy?

    (and I'm not asking this in antagonism)

    Because I too have been concerned with the President's early meetings, but have generally bought into the argument that the lesson learned from HillaryCare's failure was: "The insurance & hospital industries killed it, so they need to firstly be brought onboard this time". But I still have some skepticism, especially in light of some of the President's actions since then (the TPP not being the least).

    A decision on no single-payer or public option in those meetings, if a true, would be heinous IMO, unless that was truly the only way forward. I don't believe that occurred due to seeing the public option come up for vote, and losing by only one vote (Sen Joe Lieberman - Hartford CT - insurance capital of the country).
    Yeah, I posted them again and again during the Obamacare debate. It really was his first betrayal of the campaign promise of transparency.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, it doesn't. The burden of paying for insurance still exists when starting your own business, in fact, it's more expensive now. Before Obamacare new business owners had a great field of group plans to choose from, including some very low cost plans that aren't allowed under Obamacare. Sure they weren't ideal, but they were affordable for the new business owner and beat not having any.
    Bottom line is group insurance is like all the rest of insurance. Healthy, young workforce = decent options. Sick or old = crap and VERY expensive options. Anyone is too sick = NO options.

    And I don't know about Oregon, but small businesses in Tennessee just don't have a "great field of group plans" to choose from. There are very limited options for what anyone can actually call "insurance" versus mini me prepaid healthcare plans that cap out with any serious illness or accident.

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Why do I think your definition of 'progressive machine' is anything you don't agree with?
    I don't know. Perhaps that is what you have been trained to believe?

    The Annenberg Public Policy Center is most certainly a Progressive operation, as is PolitiFact, and most of the others. Given their direct connection to Progressive groups, they are deservedly part of what I refer to as the Progressive Machine.

    Facts are what they are Threegoofs.
    President Donald J Trump, 45th President of the United States of America. A victory born in the hearts and minds of Everyday Americans

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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    There is no support for any of that. If you've got polling internals that illustrate your point, please cite it.
    At no point in the history of the PPACA has RealClearPolitics aggregate polling data showed the majority of Americans approving of the law.

    I would have provided the data but I just assumed nobody was in that much denial.

    And healthcare for poor people will always be tough to afford. If you have a better plan, that increases coverage and is cheaper for those who need subsidies or are on the edge, then propose it. If you make the whole picture (premiums plus copays) cheaper, it just increases the cost to taxpayers, and you guys would complain about that. If we make it cheaper for taxpayers, it means fewer get coverage and/or their premiums and copays go up, and you whine about that. That's the problem with actually governing - it's easy for people to sit on the sidelines and throw bricks at people actually making these tough trade-offs, and then pretend that with your "to be named later" plan it will be sooo much better, better insurance, everyone covered, cheaper, we all get ponies! without any need to come up with a better alternative.
    Ah, the old "Find something better or shut up!" Argument. The health care industry of 2008 was better than today. Today some more people have insurance but that doesn't mean that they can afford to go to the doctor. The PPACA solution to health care is like trying to solve world hunger by handing out dinner plates.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 06-25-15 at 02:03 PM.
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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Yeah, and the LeftWad can never get it back.....ever.




    California (lack of affordability, 'tepid' enrollment): "After using most of $1 billion in federal start-up money, California's Obamacare exchange is preparing to go on a diet. That financial reality is reflected in Covered California's proposed budget, released Wednesday, as well as a reduced forecast calling for 2016 enrollment of fewer than 1.5 million people. The recalibration comes after tepid enrollment growth for California during the second year of the Affordable Care Act. The state ended open enrollment in February with 1.4 million people signed up, far short of its goal of 1.7 million. A number of factors contributed to the shortfall, but health policy experts said that some uninsured folks still find health insurance unaffordable despite the health law's premium subsidies."

    Hawaii (abject failure): "Despite over $205 million in federal taxpayer funding, Hawaii’s Obamacare exchange website will soon shut down...According to the Honolulu Star-Advertiser the Hawaii Health Connector will stop taking new enrollees on Friday and plans to begin migrating to the federally run Healthcare.gov. Outreach services will end by May 31, all technology will be transferred to the state by September 30, and its workforce will be eliminated by February 28. While the exchange has struggled since its creation, it is not for lack of funding. Since 2011 Hawaii has received a total of $205,342,270 in federal grant money from the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). In total, HHS provided nearly $4.5 billion to Hawaii and other state exchanges, with little federal oversight and virtually no strings attached. Despite this generous funding, the exchange has underperformed from day one. In its first year, Hawaii enrolled only 8,592 individuals…" Hawaii joints Maryland, Massachusetts and Oregon among the states that wasted hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars on utterly failed exchanges. A reminder from Phil Kerpen:

    Phil Kerpen ✔ ‎@kerpen Hawaii flushing $205M on failed Obamacare exchange does not dethrone the reigning champs: Oregon, $305M for a site that never even launched. 10:53 PM - 11 May 2015....snip~


    Obamacare Updates: Tale of Fail from Coast to Coast - Guy Benson
    To crib from Jon Stewart, saying Obamacare is bad because of a broken website is like saying ice cream is bad because you can't find a spoon.

  10. #180
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    re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    correction: we continue to have the worst health care in the industrialized world

    but it is better now than before Obamacare

    it was the well intended but ill advised effort to compromise with a republican approach that cost us single-payer healthcare
    As usual you are too kind.

    An "asinine and insulting backward step" is how we see it here.

    The change to UHC does not come easily, it didn't happen here overnight. But we learned there is no middle, no in between, it is an all or nothing venture. In my severest criticisms of Obama, this is the most severe. He had an opportunity to change opinion, by unifying, and deliberately squandered it.

    In Canada we voted some years ago for who was our best Canadian. It wasn't Gretski, not Pierre Trudeau, not Les Voyaguers who opened all of North America, but one guy, a leader of a third ranked party who had implemented UHC in his province when he was premier. Tommy Douglas was never prime minister, in fact never even made her majesty's loyal opposition, the theoretical government in waiting. He was the leader of the third ranked party who convinced a nation of the value of universal health care. In fact, he wasn't even part leader when UHC came into being.

    Obama had that opportunity, but rather than 'sell' a proven idea, convince America of the economic benefits [30-40% less lost time at work to start] and to bring the country together.

    Instead he chose not to work with even the most moderate Republicans, and called them "enemies", and then proceeded to ram through the most complex piece of legislation in the history of the United States [that document and its attachments are more than the entire Canada Health Act and its attchments dating back to 1966].

    So now, we have a deeper divide, those who may have supported UHC before lost their plans when no one was supposed to, it he and his posse alienated intelligent lawmakers who may have come on board and helped sell the idea.

    My first post after the passing of Obamacare was something like this "the possibility of an affordable and sustainable universal health care plan has been set back at least two decades." I now say five decades.

    And you now stand alone in the world among industrialized countries with the single worst idea on the planet.
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

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