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Thread: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    Hospital Compare.

    This isn't hypothetical, it's real.



    A government program can lower costs for people as long as market incentives are built into it? Wow, who knew.

    It's almost as if you just discredited every point you've ever made.
    Here is an opinion you don't want to hear as you still cling to the belief that the Federal Govt. is going to eventually create that utopia you and others believe exists

    https://sheridegrom.wordpress.com/20...-doctors-gone/

    Too many doctors are dropping Medicare, why?

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Medicare Part D did actually lower costs by putting people in charge of their healthcare expenses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    All good entitlement programs started with good intentions but none of them ever reduced costs and simply create dependence.
    Mmhmm.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Too many doctors are dropping Medicare, why?
    So you say.


    Figure 1: Percentage of Physicians Accepting New Patients with Medicare and Private Insurance, 2005-2012


    Approximately 90% of all office-based physicians report accepting new Medicare patients. The percentage of physicians who report accepting new Medicare patients is similar to the percentage of physicians who report accepting new privately insured patients. In addition, the share accepting new Medicare patients has been relatively stable over the 2005-2012 period and shows a slight increase in 2011-2012 based on initial NAMCS data. Beneficiary reports of access to care, including the ability to find a physician and see a doctor in a timely manner, are also favorable. Again, these results are comparable to reports by patients with private insurance and have been stable over time. Overall, Medicare beneficiary access to care has been consistently high over the last decade and continues to be high today.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    Mmhmm.
    The problem is you don't understand Medicare Part D just like you claim I don't understand ACA. Which one had actual incentive for people to reduce costs?

    In addition I can post articles and you can post articles that support our point of view but what you cannot point to are govt. entitlement programs that ever cost what they were supposed to cost without providing incentive to the patient. There is no incentive for the Federal Govt. to provide incentive as they buy votes instead of cutting costs.
    Last edited by Conservative; 07-10-15 at 02:31 PM.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The problem is you don't understand Medicare Part D just like you claim I don't understand ACA.
    The problem is you claimed an entitlement program has never saved money. Then you point to Part D as an example of an entitlement program that has saved money.

    So obviously either Part D didn't save money, or entitlement programs can indeed be designed in ways that save money. Figure out what you believe and get back to me. Watching you debate yourself is a bit tedious.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Obviously you have no concept of what incentive means show me the incentive in ACA to create savings of healthcare costs

    Corrected to say incentive for patients to save money in their healthcare expenses like they have with ACA
    Last edited by Conservative; 07-10-15 at 03:14 PM.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    Mmhmm.
    This whole conversation is starting to look like a confirmation of Poe's Law.

    Is it a parody, or is it real?
    --------------------------------------------------
    Poe's law is an internet adage which states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies of extremism are indistinguishable from sincere expressions of extremism.[1][2] Poe's Law implies that parody will often be mistaken for sincere belief, and sincere beliefs for parody.[3]
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Obviously you have no concept of what incentive means show me the incentive in ACA to create savings of healthcare costs

    Corrected to say incentive for patients to save money in their healthcare expenses like they have with ACA
    A market. Those in the marketplaces who are subsidized receive a flat dollar amount that's tagged to a particular point in the market, the second cheapest silver plan. That subsidy can be applied to any plan but its value doesn't scale with them--if a person buys a cheaper plan, the premium they personally pay out of their own dollars is lower. If they buy a more expensive plan, what they pay is higher.

    Plans thus have every incentive to sell the cheapest plan (not dissimilar from the concept of competitive bidding in more government-heavy programs like Part D--the difference is sellers are bidding directly for consumers' business in the open market) and consumers have a personal financial incentive to buy the cheapest plans. The incentive is stronger under the ACA than it is under Part D.

    This dynamic is why premiums have been way below expectations ("Private Premiums Under Affordable Care Act 15% Below Forecast, Says CBO") and it's a big part of why the ACA's expected cost has fallen dramatically: "Obamacare will cost less than thought."

    Meanwhile, when it comes to actually shopping for health services, people are increasingly price sensitive because of the cost-sharing in their insurance plans, e.g., deductibles and the like. They're incentivized to use lower-priced health care providers, which puts downward pressure on health care price growth (which is at about the lowest level ever right now).

    You've admitted that a government program structured in this way can be expected to save money. The only thing left to do is take that one last step and admit the obvious: the ACA has and will save money.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    A market. Those in the marketplaces who are subsidized receive a flat dollar amount that's tagged to a particular point in the market, the second cheapest silver plan. That subsidy can be applied to any plan but its value doesn't scale with them--if a person buys a cheaper plan, the premium they personally pay out of their own dollars is lower. If they buy a more expensive plan, what they pay is higher.

    Plans thus have every incentive to sell the cheapest plan (not dissimilar from the concept of competitive bidding in more government-heavy programs like Part D--the difference is sellers are bidding directly for consumers' business in the open market) and consumers have a personal financial incentive to buy the cheapest plans. The incentive is stronger under the ACA than it is under Part D.

    This dynamic is why premiums have been way below expectations ("Private Premiums Under Affordable Care Act 15% Below Forecast, Says CBO") and it's a big part of why the ACA's expected cost has fallen dramatically: "Obamacare will cost less than thought."

    Meanwhile, when it comes to actually shopping for health services, people are increasingly price sensitive because of the cost-sharing in their insurance plans, e.g., deductibles and the like. They're incentivized to use lower-priced health care providers, which puts downward pressure on health care price growth (which is at about the lowest level ever right now).

    You've admitted that a government program structured in this way can be expected to save money. The only thing left to do is take that one last step and admit the obvious: the ACA has and will save money.
    Let me know when you achieve that utopia that liberals believe exists with govt. programs?

    By the way, private insurance offers the same thing and we didn't need ACA to make those programs available to others as well. A tax credit program would do the same thing and allow people to save money by keeping more of that tax credit if they saved money. Those not paying taxes would be eligible for true help from the state and local communities
    Last edited by Conservative; 07-11-15 at 08:38 AM.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Let me know when you achieve that utopia that liberals believe exists with govt. programs?
    I want a well-functioning market, not a utopia.

    By the way, private insurance offers the same thing and we didn't need ACA to make those programs available to others as well. A tax credit program would do the same thing and allow people to save money by keeping more of that tax credit if they saved money. Those not paying taxes would be eligible for true help from the state and local communities
    So your alternative would be an approach that "offers the same thing." That sounds like a tacit admission that the ACA is achieving exactly what you'd want a health reform plan to be achieving.

    At this point you're just quibbling.

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