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Thread: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Estimates, Predictions? do you understand what those mean? What happens if those assumptions don't happen? We have another entitlement program that will put us trillions more in debt or unfunded liabilities. Why doesn't that cross your mind.
    The fact is the rising cost of health care are slowing.
    Since my husband has owned his own company for over 40 Yeats and we have had to pay for our family's coverage and his employees coverage for over 40 years , we know how much health costs have skyrocketed.

    Since the ACA the sky rocketing costs have been slowing down.

    See exhibit 3
    In 1980 Heath care costs per individual were just over $1000 in the USA.
    By 2005 they were about $7500 per individual.

    And that was a stop shot of 25 years.
    You can see how much slower health care costs rose in countries who had single payer insurance.

    http://kff.org/health-costs/issue-br...ecd-countries/
    Last edited by minnie616; 07-05-15 at 11:40 AM.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The fact is the rising cost of health care are slowing.
    Since my husband has owned his own company for over 40 Yeats and we have had to pay for our family's coverage and his employees coverage for over 40 years , we know how much health costs have skyrocketed.

    Since the ACA the sky rocketing costs have been slowing down.
    The rising costs of healthcare slowing has more to do with an improving economy and nothing to do with ACA

    You want badly to believe what you are being told but history isn't your friend when it comes to the Federal Govt. creating social programs. That isn't their role yet for some reason you keep buying the rhetoric. It is rather interesting as to what you are willing to accept as the new reality. Why such low standards?

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The fact is the rising cost of health care are slowing.
    Since my husband has owned his own company for over 40 Yeats and we have had to pay for our family's coverage and his employees coverage for over 40 years , we know how much health costs have skyrocketed.

    Since the ACA the sky rocketing costs have been slowing down.

    See exhibit 3
    In 1980 Heath care costs per individual were just over $1000 in the USA.
    By 2005 they were about $7500 per individual.

    And that was a stop shot of 25 years.
    You can see how much slower health care costs rose in countries who had single payer insurance.

    Snapshots: Health Care Spending in the United States & Selected OECD Countries | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
    Before you start trumpeting ACA for lowering heathcare costs here is some good reading for you. When was ACA passed and when was it fully implemented?

    The $2.7 trillion question: Are health-care costs really slowing? - The Washington Post

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    Yes, the ACA does save Medicare money- that's what bending the cost curve down means. But it absolutely does not cut the Medicare budget. You follow?

    No, the CBO absolutely does not say, and has never said, that the ACA will add to the deficit. It has always said, every single time, that the ACA will reduce the deficit.

    What may be tripping you up on the latter is that the CBO responds to questions it gets from legislators and sometimes Republicans try to play games with that. At one point, they asked the CBO to project the impact on the deficit if we kept all the ACA expenditures, but repealed all the revenue components. Obviously then it would add to the deficit. When they got that report, some of the shadier Republican legislators pretended that that meant that the CBO said the ACA would increase the deficit. It sounds like you may have gotten tricked by them.
    MYTH 5: The new law "raids Medicare of $716 billion."

    It's simply not true. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO), Congress' independent and nonpartisan budget scorekeeper, recently estimated that the changes to Medicare in the ACA will reduce spending by a total of $716 billion between 2013 and 2022.

    "That's where the number comes from," says Guterman. The largest portion of these savings would come from changes to provider payments and correcting overpayments to insurance companies that offer private Medicare plans.
    Health Care Reform and Medicare Myths vs. Facts - AARP

    So, the AARP, a PPACA supporter, stated that the PPACA will cut payments to providers. They make a big deal about no cuts in benefits to Medicare recipients but it is a different story on Medicare providers. In my world, in the italicized portion, when cuts are made to providers cuts are made in the program.

    And, yes, CBO estimates are based on the specific questions posed by the Congress. Funny, the CBO estimates were heralded in 2010 yet criticized in 2015.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The rising costs of healthcare slowing has more to do with an improving economy and nothing to do with ACA

    ...
    I showed you the skyrocketing costs of healthcare from 1980 ( just over $1,000 per person ) to
    2005 ( over $7,500 per person ) and you say the slowing of healthcare costs is because the economy is improving ?......

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    I showed you the skyrocketing costs of healthcare from 1980 ( just over $1,000 per person ) to
    2005 ( over $7,500 per person ) and you say the slowing of healthcare costs is because the economy is improving ?......
    I gave you an article showing that healthcare costs started dropping in 2009 long before ACA so tell me again why ACA that is going to insure millions and millions of high risk people is going to reduce costs? You buy what you are told and ignore logic and common sense as well as history.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I gave you an article showing that healthcare costs started dropping in 2009 long before ACA so tell me again why ACA that is going to insure millions and millions of high risk people is going to reduce costs? You buy what you are told and ignore logic and common sense as well as history.
    History shows us that costs of uncontrolled health care for profit has had skyrocketing increases over the 4 decades between 1965 and 2005.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    History shows us that costs of uncontrolled health care for profit has had skyrocketing increases over the 4 decades between 1965 and 2005.
    So how has ACA lowered those costs in 2009-2010 before it was even passed?

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    CBO makes predictions based upon assumptions given them by Congress so if the assumptions are wrong the predictions are wrong.
    Right. That's what I just explained to you. When congress asks them "what effect will the ACA have on the deficit?" they have always said the same thing- it will reduce the deficit. In fact, it has been reducing it slightly more than they predicted.

    The Republicans tried to game it by asking the CBO "what effect would the ACA have on the deficit if we cancelled all the revenue-making parts?" Obviously the answer that is that it would increase the deficit, which the CBO said, but then followed up in the same report by reiterating that the ACA as a whole will reduce the deficit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It also appears that you don't understand the difference between deficit and debt. Deficits are yearly and debt is cumulative. Please explain what you mean by reducing the deficit when deficits are yearly and neither you or CBO understand what the yearly deficit is going to be?
    Not really sure what you're arguing. It reduces the deficit because it creates more revenue than it spends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    ACA cannot increase access to millions of high risk people and lower costs, that is impossible no matter how many of the young "Invincible" forced to contribute.
    Yes, of course increasing access can lower costs. When people lack coverage and as a result they let things go too long without catching them, they can end up costing radically more to fix. It's like anything else. If you don't fix a small leak in your roof, you end up having to replace the whole thing before long, but with a small amount of maintenance, you can save a ton of money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You want badly to believe with your heart and not think with your brain. Because you want something to happen doesn't mean that it will.
    You brought up the CBO. The CBO says it will reduce the deficit, and thus far, it has in fact been reducing the deficit.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    tuhaybey;1064791739]Right. That's what I just explained to you. When congress asks them "what effect will the ACA have on the deficit?" they have always said the same thing- it will reduce the deficit. In fact, it has been reducing it slightly more than they predicted.
    So you believe a law that was passed the end of 2010 and hasn't fully been implemented has reduced the deficit? Wow, doesn't take much to impress you but the reality is ACA is PROJECTED to reduce the deficit meaning that we will continue to run deficits and the deficit reduction will only happen IF the assumptions come true and the track record of CBO isn't that good.

    The Republicans tried to game it by asking the CBO "what effect would the ACA have on the deficit if we cancelled all the revenue-making parts?" Obviously the answer that is that it would increase the deficit, which the CBO said, but then followed up in the same report by reiterating that the ACA as a whole will reduce the deficit.
    Again, the assumptions have to be accurate for the CBO projections to be accurate. How do you know the assumptions will be accurate?


    Not really sure what you're arguing. It reduces the deficit because it creates more revenue than it spends.
    That is an opinion but I am still waiting for you to explain how insuring millions of high risk people and not getting the invincible youth to enroll is going to increase revenue?

    Yes, of course increasing access can lower costs. When people lack coverage and as a result they let things go too long without catching them, they can end up costing radically more to fix. It's like anything else. If you don't fix a small leak in your roof, you end up having to replace the whole thing before long, but with a small amount of maintenance, you can save a ton of money.
    You really are nave in believing everyone that is uninsured is just like you, taking preventative care of themselves which just goes to show how inexperience you are in dealing with people. I cannot believe how nave and gullible far too many are


    You brought up the CBO. The CBO says it will reduce the deficit, and thus far, it has in fact been reducing the deficit.
    Opinions IF THE ASSUMPTIONS ARE CORRECT and their track record isn't good because the assumptions are so bad. Why do you give CBO such credit when their record is so poor?

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