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Thread: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So send me your address so I can publish it for others who have seen their deductibles skyrocket. I am sure you will be happy to pay those as well.
    They can afford it. That's the concept of the ACA. If you want to pay less in premiums, you get a higher deductible.

    It's all about personal responsibility, something the Conservatives constantly squawk about but don't want to face when it impinges upon their handouts.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Where does quality appear in ACA?
    So you ignorantly oppose a law you don't even understand?

    Quality is a linchpin of the ACA, especially when it comes down to reimbursement! And reimbursement is the driver of healthcare in our system.

    In fact, this comment is so fantastically stupid, it deserves highlighting...the move from pay for service to pay-for-quality has been a dramatic change over the last few years. I could describe why and how, but that's easy to look up, and my guess is you don't want to know, because it will conflict with your imaginary facts.

    This truly illustrates how the core of ACA opposition is mostly abjectly ignorant of the ACA itself.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Connections are one thing, but you have obviously taken the time to inform yourself, and it's largely accurate, surprising for Americans today.
    I agree with the difference in perception, and is where the right in the US is in the dark ages, as bound to ideology as any left wing gruber. The for-profit model is simply not sustainable and, is yet another indicator of the division in the US. The resistance to it has nothing to do with merit, cost or effectiveness, it is all politics. The financial argument, which should sell them, is there. And I agree, they are stupid enough to try to repeal Obamacare and leave nothing as an alternative.

    <snip>
    Thanks for the reply & friendship request Fearandloathing, and sorry for the delay in my response.

    Wow!

    You've got a lot of good content in this post, and I'm not at all surprised you're a journalist (I note your ability to see the big picture in a cause-effect manner). I was a big-city newspaper-boy during the tail-end of the newspaper era in the city that many considered the top investigative 'hard news' newspaper town in the country, and I read & worshiped the local newspapermen along with the local authors & novelists: Royko, Terkel, Algren, Hemingway (all extant then, except Hemingway); these were the men that shaped my mind as a young child - enough, so that I seriously considered attending the Medill School of Journalism (Northwestern University), which was only an 'el' ride away. In the end, I decided upon a degree in technology, because I thought it was the fastest way to make some money. But my heart never left reading, and I still love the process of writing.

    You're definitely right in that the problems we have here are not GOP specific, but that of the entire political process - both parties included. I beat harder on the GOP in this instance because I saw them as the primary opponents to UHC, but the Dems are often just as culpable in many matters. I do tend go after the GOP more often because I usually lean more progressive than conservative, but not always.

    The American form of constitutional equal branches of government may have some flaws vs the Canadian parliamentary, one of which is it seems to naturally devolve into a two-party system, and I see that as a problem. You've stated we need to elect better leaders (I agree), but in the end the two-party system gives us only two choices, and really, how much difference is there between Secy Clinton & Governor Romney? Or Governor Bush? So electing better is not quite that easy.

    And with a two party system comes the natural tendency to polarize & demonize. Why? Because one doesn't need ideas with merit - they merely need to demonize the other guy(s). However this system has previously worked, as flawed and difficult as it is, but I believe the current influx of huge amounts of cash & it's influence is usurping the very democratic nature of the political process. All the serious GOP candidates have publicly stopped by Sheldon Adelson's office for his imprimatur, but not one has stopped by my home to talk to me - why could that be? My daughter personally met and had discussion with Senator Paul in D.C. when she was an intern for the 2nd largest healthcare network in the States, and her boss was in D.C. to discuss campaign funding & contributions to the Senator. If I sent him an email, do you think he'd meet with me to discuss my concerns (unless I'm meeting him with bags of $$$)?

    But I think your most reflective point for me was: you are right - President Obama needed to use his tremendous charisma and near-fanatical following to cohere the political will to accomplish his objectives. In this, he fell short. The oft-repeated phrase, "He's a better campaigner, than leader" has some merit.

    As to your fears of civil war, I can understand. I recently began thinking that if the North & South had divided along the Mason-Dixon Line, everyone might be a bit happier!
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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  4. #994
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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    ...ain't no such thing as common sense nor common knowledge. You make the assertion that the earth is round with me, you better be prepared to show credible third party evidence to support that assertion. I sure as hill won't simply take your rank amateur word for it....

    ... than again, I probably would pass on the earth is round claim.... we have yahoos on this board that have never studied law yet claim there is NO legal defense of certain SCOTUS decisions... they have ZERO expertise, but tell us they know more than every lawyer in the country (I just love that deadly mix of arrogance and ignorance) .... them's are the id**ts that need to do the 'splainin' (or need to find themselves an AOL chatroom)..
    I got news for you my friend, there's no such thing as, common sense, common knowledge nor any brains anymore, we have become stupid as hell, example: look at the idiots we have put in charge of this nation. we have declined immensely as a nation and we are the laughing stock of the world, this country is not as rich any more, Bush and 0bama took over and ruined it by spending money that we don't have. I don't think I am telling you anything new that you already know.
    Catch me if you can.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Thanks for the reply & friendship request Fearandloathing, and sorry for the delay in my response.

    Wow!

    You've got a lot of good content in this post, and I'm not at all surprised you're a journalist (I note your ability to see the big picture in a cause-effect manner). I was a big-city newspaper-boy during the tail-end of the newspaper era in the city that many considered the top investigative 'hard news' newspaper town in the country, and I read & worshiped the local newspapermen along with the local authors & novelists: Royko, Terkel, Algren, Hemingway (all extant then, except Hemingway); these were the men that shaped my mind as a young child - enough, so that I seriously considered attending the Medill School of Journalism (Northwestern University), which was only an 'el' ride away. In the end, I decided upon a degree in technology, because I thought it was the fastest way to make some money. But my heart never left reading, and I still love the process of writing.

    You're definitely right in that the problems we have here are not GOP specific, but that of the entire political process - both parties included. I beat harder on the GOP in this instance because I saw them as the primary opponents to UHC, but the Dems are often just as culpable in many matters. I do tend go after the GOP more often because I usually lean more progressive than conservative, but not always.

    Edited for space ....

    Thank you.


    In no particular order, I lecture a class on applied ethics in journalism today and am often asked makes for the best journalist and my reply is always 'curiosity', and when asked what tool they most need, I say eyes, to read and to observe, the ears are easily deceived and when the sound is spoken, likely deception to begin with. What we, cops, lawyers and reporters talk about in that "no tell' press club is often how everyone lies, often for no reason and often an "honest lie", like they saw something they couldn't have....we learn "eye witness" is the least reliable evidence of anything.

    There are certainly draw backs in the parliamentary system, not the least of which is uncertainty in minority governments, unfounded uncertainty. But your comments on being able to get to your politician is kind of ironic today, as I was just poled by the Premier's office, the party version, but herself, the single mom with bright shiny eyes, Cristy Clark wanting to know what I thought on topics today, no big deal, but a comment section as well, still no big deal.

    but the thank you by a real aid ten minutes later in what is our 4th of July, Canada Day was. In the 80's my partner was an American nurse and we lived in the Prime Minister's riding, where the head of the country has to get out of the car [no limos here] and meet real people. Late in the election Prime Minister John Turner went door knocking on my street. My partner answered and did not know what to say when the aid told her the Prime Minister was going door-to-door and would she like to speek to him. On her somewhat awed behalf I said sure. Turner, who knew me when he was Finance Minister in Ottawa and on the campaign trail in Vancouver, says "hi" with surprise in his eyes when he sees me and says "pretty sneaky way to get an interview" [he was the most approachable PM I ever worked with]. So I tell him it's off the record and my GF doesn't believe you're the PM"

    So they had a chat and off he went and as far as I know she still talks about it, as most of her crowd had never even met a congressman.

    The biggest fear for our political system now is becoming "American". This government has opened the $ floodgates, allowed more third party advertising, and we have seen a trend on their part to use nasty negative ads. The leader of the opposition volunteered publicly that he had smoked pot since being elected to office [done by design] and the Tories have been running ads for two years saying Justin Trudeau wants to sell pot to kids.

    If they win a majority, I fear we will become like you
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

  6. #996
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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    They can afford it. That's the concept of the ACA. If you want to pay less in premiums, you get a higher deductible.

    It's all about personal responsibility, something the Conservatives constantly squawk about but don't want to face when it impinges upon their handouts.
    Its not about " personal responsibility ", its about Government mandating compliance based on a highly politicized definition of personal responsibility.

    The Federal government has decided for Millions of Americans what's " affordable " and whats " fair ", and if we disagree with them then we get to pay a fine. A fine that increases every year regardless of our personal economic issues.

    Its not about the Free market, or " affordable healthcare " either.

    If Healthcare was so unaffordable that we needed ObamaCare, how is it MORE affordable now that rates and out of pocket cost continue to climb ?

    If it were a Free market solution then the consumer would have recourse.

    No matter how bad and how expensive ObamaCare policies are, we are still forced to purchase a product that was sold under false pretenses.

    There is no recourse for the consumer. ObamaCare policies aren't judged on their merits as it applies to the individual consumer, they're judged and will always be judged based on how good or bad it makes one specific Political party and or President look.

    There is no Free market without the CHOICE not to participate.

    Its interesting to watch Liberals defend what's analogous to what would be one of the most corrupt and lawless Corporations that ever existed in our Nation's history.

  7. #997
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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    They can afford it. That's the concept of the ACA. If you want to pay less in premiums, you get a higher deductible.

    It's all about personal responsibility, something the Conservatives constantly squawk about but don't want to face when it impinges upon their handouts.

    So how do you know how much someone else can afford? where is it the Federal Government's responsibility to provide personal responsibility issues?

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    So you ignorantly oppose a law you don't even understand?

    Quality is a linchpin of the ACA, especially when it comes down to reimbursement! And reimbursement is the driver of healthcare in our system.

    In fact, this comment is so fantastically stupid, it deserves highlighting...the move from pay for service to pay-for-quality has been a dramatic change over the last few years. I could describe why and how, but that's easy to look up, and my guess is you don't want to know, because it will conflict with your imaginary facts.

    This truly illustrates how the core of ACA opposition is mostly abjectly ignorant of the ACA itself.
    Sorry but it is your ignorance that ignores reality, basic civics and the Constitution. Quality never was the issue in ACA and it is obvious it won't provide quality but rather just coverage and it won't reduce costs as no federal entitlement program does that.

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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sorry but it is your ignorance that ignores reality, basic civics and the Constitution. Quality never was the issue in ACA and it is obvious it won't provide quality but rather just coverage and it won't reduce costs as no federal entitlement program does that.
    Now we can get down to substance, instead of your ideological pap.

    Quality was and is a key part of the ACA, with the establishment of pay for performance measures to the Center for Medicare Innovation.

    You have no clue what you are talking about. This proves it.

    The matter is concluded.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  10. #1000
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    Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    That's the same thing. If you're accepting those studies that happen to align with your assumptions and ignoring those studies that conflict with your assumptions, that is no different than just ignoring all studies and going with your assumptions.
    Not at all. A study does not have to necessarily agree with my point of view....it merely needs to be based on actual science or common sense.

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