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Senate Approves Fast-Track, Sending Trade Bill to White House

Yes, and our exports to Mexico have grown. In addition, all Americans benefit from lower prices resulting from reduced production costs.

Yeah, living on government handouts because our jobs are being shipped out of the country I guess we do need reduced pricing huh? Do you see the irony in that?
 
Yeah, living on government handouts because our jobs are being shipped out of the country I guess we do need reduced pricing huh? Do you see the irony in that?

Older industries came under increasing competitive pressure from about 1975 onward, and that would have happened irrespective of trade agreements or lack of trade agreements. Free trade gives us a chance for gains elsewhere.
 
Older industries came under increasing competitive pressure from about 1975 onward, and that would have happened irrespective of trade agreements or lack of trade agreements. Free trade gives us a chance for gains elsewhere.

EWW! Competitive pressure! God forbid that competitive pressure happen!

Wait! Isn't competitive pressure also good for keeping prices reduced?
.......
 
EWW! Competitive pressure! God forbid that competitive pressure happen!

Wait! Isn't competitive pressure also good for keeping prices reduced?
.......

There's no reason for so much attitude.
At the end of WW2 the US was the last major economy standing, and was able to afford a type of lush industrial economy that was an historical anomaly. The error is to mistake that anomaly for normal. By 1975 the rest of the world had sufficiently recovered to begin to exert competitive pressure. What has seemed like a decline from the good old days has simply been a reversion to normal.
 
On the contrary, almost all are.

If this is gonna be such a great deal, then why can't they just show the public what's in it? Hell, why can't they show Congress what's in it before they vote on it?
 
Trade Promotion Authority =/= the Trans Pacific Partnership.

True, however it may very well lead to that (though I hope I am proven wrong).
 
There's no reason for so much attitude.
At the end of WW2 the US was the last major economy standing, and was able to afford a type of lush industrial economy that was an historical anomaly. The error is to mistake that anomaly for normal. By 1975 the rest of the world had sufficiently recovered to begin to exert competitive pressure. What has seemed like a decline from the good old days has simply been a reversion to normal.

Sarcasm designed to make one think is legitimate debate tactic. ;)

So, WHY was the American economy able to stand so tall at the end of WW2? Because we had people with jobs. People with jobs are able to buy things which keeps an economy going (indeed, people having money to buy things and keep the economy strong is one of the strong reasons that people advocate for government handouts). Our jobs get shipped out of the country and what happens? We no longer have a strong base to keep strong even when other countries are struggling.
 
If this is gonna be such a great deal, then why can't they just show the public what's in it? Hell, why can't they show Congress what's in it before they vote on it?

All 535 members of the House and Senate have had access to the full text. Treaty language is never made public until the text is presented for ratification.
 
Sarcasm designed to make one think is legitimate debate tactic. ;)

So, WHY was the American economy able to stand so tall at the end of WW2? Because we had people with jobs. People with jobs are able to buy things which keeps an economy going (indeed, people having money to buy things and keep the economy strong is one of the strong reasons that people advocate for government handouts). Our jobs get shipped out of the country and what happens? We no longer have a strong base to keep strong even when other countries are struggling.

Our economy stood so tall at the end of WW2 because the war had been a huge stimulus, and every other major economy had been destroyed. It was an abnormal situation.
 
If this is gonna be such a great deal, then why can't they just show the public what's in it? Hell, why can't they show Congress what's in it before they vote on it?

Greetings, Mr. Invisible. :2wave:

I can sort of understand not making it available to the public, since many people probably wouldn't understand it even if they had any interest in reading it in the first place, but are you saying that Congress may have just voted on something they haven't read? :shock:
 
Greetings, Mr. Invisible. :2wave:

I can sort of understand not making it available to the public, since many people probably wouldn't understand it even if they had any interest in reading it in the first place, but are you saying that Congress may have just voted on something they haven't read? :shock:

Good evening, Polgara.:2wave:

All 535 members of the House and Senate have had (and still have) access to the full text.
 
Lucky for our President that Repubs put country before party and voted for free trade. Too bad the Dems couldn't help.

Senate Approves Fast-Track, Sending Trade Bill to White House

The Senate voted Wednesday to approve fast-track authority, securing a big second-term legislative win for President Obama after a months-long struggle.
The 60-38 Senate vote capped weeks of fighting over the trade bill, which pitted Obama against most of his party — including Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid (Nev.) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.).
Passage of the bill is also a big victory for GOP leaders in Congress, including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio). The Republican leaders worked closely with an administration they have more frequently opposed to nudge the trade bill over the goal line.Labor unions and liberal Democrats had fought hard against the authority and are likely to now turn their attention toward stopping the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a trade deal Obama is negotiating with 11 other Pacific Rim nations.
Fast-track, or trade promotion authority (TPA), will allow the White House to send trade deals to Congress for up-or-down votes. The Senate will not be able to filibuster them, and lawmakers will not have the power to amend them. . . .



Your party just decided to forfeit their resposibilities as the legislative branch to give the executive branch even more power... Which they will then bitch about it having too much power. And you don't even see that. Amazing.
 
Your party just decided to forfeit their resposibilities as the legislative branch to give the executive branch even more power... Which they will then bitch about it having too much power. And you don't even see that. Amazing.

Since this treaty is being handled just like every preceding trade treaty I'm afraid you'll have to explain that rant.
 
Our economy stood so tall at the end of WW2 because the war had been a huge stimulus, and every other major economy had been destroyed. It was an abnormal situation.

Why was it "abnormal"? What kept it strong?
 
Since this treaty is being handled just like every preceding trade treaty I'm afraid you'll have to explain that rant.

Just for the record, I've been for approval of the TPP from just about the very start.

On my way back over from the PI this last weekend, I was reading an editorial in the English version of the Korea Times, and they brought up a good point: the TPP is America's first, best opportunity to set the terms of Pacific trade...before China's able to flex her muscles to the point where she can dictate the terms of any such agreements. The TPP, in their eyes, seem to be as much about presenting a close-to-unified economic front to China as it is a real effort to break down trade boundaries.
 
Greetings, Mr. Invisible. :2wave:

I can sort of understand not making it available to the public, since many people probably wouldn't understand it even if they had any interest in reading it in the first place, but are you saying that Congress may have just voted on something they haven't read? :shock:

How do you think Obamacare was passed? It's actually quite common for them to not read the bills they vote on. At best their aides read it and then just give them the highlights.
 
Since this treaty is being handled just like every preceding trade treaty I'm afraid you'll have to explain that rant.

Fast track authority means congress cannot debate or amend anything pertaining to this trade deal. It's pretty much all in the preview of the executive branch.
 
Why was it "abnormal"? What kept it strong?

It's all relative. It remained strong until the rest of the world recovered enough to compete effectively. It was the environment that was abnormal. When that reverted to normal the cost squeeze began.
 
Fast track authority means congress cannot debate or amend anything pertaining to this trade deal. It's pretty much all in the preview of the executive branch.

Yes, just like every previous trade deal. And like most other treaties as well.
 
Just for the record, I've been for approval of the TPP from just about the very start.

On my way back over from the PI this last weekend, I was reading an editorial in the English version of the Korea Times, and they brought up a good point: the TPP is America's first, best opportunity to set the terms of Pacific trade...before China's able to flex her muscles to the point where she can dictate the terms of any such agreements. The TPP, in their eyes, seem to be as much about presenting a close-to-unified economic front to China as it is a real effort to break down trade boundaries.

You and I (and the Korea Times) are in complete agreement.
 
How do you think Obamacare was passed? It's actually quite common for them to not read the bills they vote on. At best their aides read it and then just give them the highlights.

Greetings, Kal'Stang. :2wave:

The last I read about this was a few days ago, and at that time the Dems were very much against a part of this Agreement, since it didn't deal with worker protection in case of job loss. Has that been handled, or does this vote simply give Congress an opportunity to revise the Agreement? :confused:
 
Yes, just like every previous trade deal. And like most other treaties as well.

Yes.... like NAFTA. Nice piece of job killing crap. And you applaud this.
 
Yes.... like NAFTA. Nice piece of job killing crap. And you applaud this.

Ah. So now that your procedural whining has been shown to be without foundation you want to shift the discussion to outcomes. Fine by me. NAFTA has been good for the U.S.
 
Ah. So now that your procedural whining has been shown to be without foundation you want to shift the discussion to outcomes. Fine by me. NAFTA has been good for the U.S.

What? YOU brought up that it was used before and then didn't cite a damn thing. I bring in something showing where it was used before, again because you didn't after making the claim, and now you are saying I'm moving the goal posts? :lol:

Here's a tip for you... SOURCE YOUR CLAIMS for a change... instead of bitching about everyone else's who do your work for you.

To the point, the procedural aspect is still stupid and bullcrap. It's the legislature handing over their responsibilities to the executive branch all while bitching for the last six years about the executive branch having too much power.

btw... NAFTA sucked just as Ross Perot predicted it would and this will likely follow in the same vein. Congrats on applauding the loss of our sovereignty to foreign tribunals via the Investor-State Dispute Settlement clause.

I just wonder why such folks that support the TPP hate America so much?
 
What? YOU brought up that it was used before and then didn't cite a damn thing. I bring in something showing where it was used before, again because you didn't after making the claim, and now you are saying I'm moving the goal posts? :lol:

Here's a tip for you... SOURCE YOUR CLAIMS for a change... instead of bitching about everyone else's who do your work for you.

To the point, the procedural aspect is still stupid and bullcrap. It's the legislature handing over their responsibilities to the executive branch all while bitching for the last six years about the executive branch having too much power.

btw... NAFTA sucked just as Ross Perot predicted it would and this will likely follow in the same vein. Congrats on applauding the loss of our sovereignty to foreign tribunals via the Investor-State Dispute Settlement clause.

I just wonder why such folks that support the TPP hate America so much?

The procedures for negotiating trade agreements are common knowledge. I don't provide links to confirm water is wet, either. Your ignorance is a problem that can't be solved at DP.
 
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