Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

jmotivator said:

Ah, that old falsehood. The racist southern Democrats stuck with the Democrats because that was the party of subversive social programs and culling black folk in the womb. They never stopped thinking that blacks are inferior they just adopted the progressive ideal that white people need to fix black people. Their programs destroyed the black family and dismembered many millions of unborn black babies ensuring a dependent minority.

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First of all, it's just historical fact that nearly 100% of Democrats not in the former CSA voted for the civil rights bills along with nearly all republicans, and that nearly 100% of white southerners voted against. So the split was white racists in the South versus EVERYONE ELSE.

Like I said, it's so surprising that the GOP hasn't made more gains with the black community by calling them too stupid to know which party has the REAL racists. LOL.

And I imagine at least part of the reason the South aligned with Democrats was because Lincoln and the northern occupiers and reconstructionists and the freed blacks (when they could vote) were Republicans.

jmotivator said:

JFK would have been bounced out of today's Democrat party, a party who today has more in common with the ideology of his assassin than they do with JFK.

And LBJ, well...

“I’ll have those n**** voting Democratic for the next 200 years.”
- Lyndon B. Johnson

And then there was Carter, since we are on the topic of the Confederate Flag..

View attachment 67186185

The objection by the Republican to the wording of the Public Accommodations section of the Civil Rights Act (again, pushed by the classic liberal Kennedy and Republicans, not by the DNC) was that it ran afoul of existing SCOTUS precedent and could scuttle the Civil Rights act in a Supreme Court challenge. Of the 117 Democrats that voted against the Civil Rights act of 1964 only a handful, 5 by my count (Iris Blitch, Arlen Specter, Strom Thurmond, Howard Callaway and Charles Pickering), switched parties to become Republican, the rest of those racists stuck with the Democrats. That is a conversion rate of... 4.3%

Sooooo.. 95.7% of Democrat Congressmen who voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 stayed Democrat.

Hmmmmmm...

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They were called Dixiecrats...but don't fret, they were still right wing conservative segregationists. Not sure, but I think Trent Lott was the last one in congress.



LBJ and Carter were southerners where racism was the norm. Neither would've won the presidency without the southern vote.

jmotivator said:

JFK would have been bounced out of today's Democrat party, a party who today has more in common with the ideology of his assassin than they do with JFK.

And LBJ, well...

“I’ll have those n**** voting Democratic for the next 200 years.”
- Lyndon B. Johnson

And then there was Carter, since we are on the topic of the Confederate Flag..

View attachment 67186185

The objection by the Republican to the wording of the Public Accommodations section of the Civil Rights Act (again, pushed by the classic liberal Kennedy and Republicans, not by the DNC) was that it ran afoul of existing SCOTUS precedent and could scuttle the Civil Rights act in a Supreme Court challenge. Of the 117 Democrats that voted against the Civil Rights act of 1964 only a handful, 5 by my count (Iris Blitch, Arlen Specter, Strom Thurmond, Howard Callaway and Charles Pickering), switched parties to become Republican, the rest of those racists stuck with the Democrats. That is a conversion rate of... 4.3%

Sooooo.. 95.7% of Democrat Congressmen who voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 stayed Democrat.

Hmmmmmm...

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JFK a classical liberal? That's a laugh, he was a an American Liberal who believed in Social Security and Medicare (that's why LBJ had passed it after JFK's death)

The quote of LBJ came out of a book and no one knows if he uttered those words. Actually it doesn't matter if he said it, it was a common word in Texas at the time. It doesn't say anything about him being a racist. LBJ used his experience in both the House and Senate to get the bill passed.

Jimmy Carter in front of the Confederate Flag? So what? He was trying to get elected.

CRA of 1964? More Democrats vote for it than Republicans.

By party[edit]
The original House version:[20]
Democratic Party: 152–96 (61–39%)
Republican Party: 138–34 (80–20%)
Cloture in the Senate:[21]
Democratic Party: 44–23 (66–34%)
Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)
The Senate version:[20]
Democratic Party: 46–21 (69–31%)
Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)
The Senate version, voted on by the House:[20]
Democratic Party: 153–91 (63–37%)
Republican Party: 136–35 (80–20%)

pbrauer said:

JFK a classical liberal? That's a laugh, he was a an American Liberal who believed in Social Security and Medicare (that's why LBJ had passed it after JFK's death)

The quote of LBJ came out of a book and no one knows if he uttered those words. Actually it doesn't matter if he said it, it was a common word in Texas at the time. It doesn't say anything about him being a racist. LBJ used his experience in both the House and Senate to get the bill passed.

Jimmy Carter in front of the Confederate Flag? So what? He was trying to get elected.

CRA of 1964? More Democrats vote for it than Republicans.

By party[edit]
The original House version:[20]
Democratic Party: 152–96 (61–39%)
Republican Party: 138–34 (80–20%)
Cloture in the Senate:[21]
Democratic Party: 44–23 (66–34%)
Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)
The Senate version:[20]
Democratic Party: 46–21 (69–31%)
Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)
The Senate version, voted on by the House:[20]
Democratic Party: 153–91 (63–37%)
Republican Party: 136–35 (80–20%)

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I would also add that JFK was about to sign the Civil Rights Act when he was assassinated....LBJ just finished the job. That was a brave move for him to do, too, because JFK wouldn't have won without LBJ on the ticket to bring in the southern vote.

Moot said:

Do you think willful ignorance and insults is helping your argument much?

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Believe me, there is nothing that will help an argument against you. When it comes time, you just toss out a race card or two.

Mycroft said:

Believe me, there is nothing that will help an argument against you. When it comes time, you just toss out a race card or two.

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Do you think false accusations and ad hom attacks helps your argument much?

Loser flag doesn't belong on license plates. The south lost, been a 150 years, get over it. Confederates stood for all things un American, they are a sad legacy of a racist past, no need for anyone to use that flag for their pride.

Moot said:

Do you think false accusations and ad hom attacks helps your argument much?

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My argument???

I don't have any argument with you.

logansrun said:

Virginia has another problem the Governor cannot fix. They have a state law that protects war monuments which leaves confederate flags flying on government owned property on which many of these memorials sit

and the state or local officials cannot do anything about it unless the law is repealed.

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There's a lot of pressure for this to be done.

Eventually it will be done.

Mycroft said:

Yeah...that will make a lot of people feel better until another nut-job walks into a church full of unarmed and defenseless citizens.

What will we remove from flagpoles and license plates when that happens?

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Let's cross that bridge when we come to it.

We can't totally destroy racism in the USA in one day.

But we can get to work on it.

Just because you can't do it all today doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to do something.

shrubnose said:

Let's cross that bridge when we come to it.

We can't totally destroy racism in the USA in one day.

But we can get to work on it.

Just because you can't do it all today doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to do something.

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Removing a flag from public view...or, especially, as in the case of SC...moving it from one public view to another public view...won't do a thing to "destroy racism". It's a useless gesture.

If you want to destroy racism, get rid of people like Sharpton who do everything they can to intensify racism.

Thrilla said:

oh looky.. lefties have finally come up with a way to ban speech while pretending to support free speech...
I expect such nonsense from far right wingers... I never expected to see a day when lefties were calling for bans ... but here we are.. flags, movies, large sodas, etc etc etc etc ....etc...etc........etc.

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Protests just ARE a cherished and virtuous form of free speech. Your idea of free speech appears to be that we have a right to engage in free speech without consequences, such as disagreement or debate. Flying a flag is a form of speech. So is protest of that form of speech. They're both protected and one can't rank either over the other.

I know it's asking alot, but maybe you should reconsider your belief over why it's still around....it's obviously not an endorsement of slavery or racism, so I wonder what it could be?

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How is that obvious? The racist murderer adopted that symbol precisely as an endorsement of racism and white supremacy, so do the KKK and white racists everywhere. S.C. put the rebel flag on the capital as an endorsement of racism and it's been there or on the memorial for 50 years. When did it become a benign symbol of virtuous southern heritage (minus the systemic racism of course...)?

I hate to play the Nazi card, but the swastika is a symbol with thousands of years of history unrelated to Nazi Germany. But if you're a decent person, you simply will not wear your swastika shirt to a Jewish event, or fly the swastika off your back porch unless you intend to offend nearly all Jews and a large number of others. It just doesn't matter what that symbol means to YOU.

oh never mind,I'm being silly asking lefties to think... we all know there is only one reason and one reason only that flag still exists... support for slavery and nothign else....derp derp.

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No one is actually arguing that, but nice straw man! Ranks right up there that we want to "ban" the Confederate flag, which no one actually proposes.....

Moot said:

They were called Dixiecrats...but don't fret, they were still right wing conservative segregationists. Not sure, but I think Trent Lott was the last one in congress.

LBJ and Carter were southerners where racism was the norm. Neither would've won the presidency without the southern vote.

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Soooo, let me get this straight... Southern Democrats turned Republican after the Civil Rights act... except most of them, and the ones that stayed Democrat only stayed Democrat so that they could get elected.... because all the Southern states turned Republican.

Makes perfect sense! :lamo

pbrauer said:

JFK a classical liberal? That's a laugh, he was a an American Liberal who believed in Social Security and Medicare (that's why LBJ had passed it after JFK's death)

The quote of LBJ came out of a book and no one knows if he uttered those words. Actually it doesn't matter if he said it, it was a common word in Texas at the time. It doesn't say anything about him being a racist. LBJ used his experience in both the House and Senate to get the bill passed.

Jimmy Carter in front of the Confederate Flag? So what? He was trying to get elected.

CRA of 1964? More Democrats vote for it than Republicans.

By party[edit]
The original House version:[20]
Democratic Party: 152–96 (61–39%)
Republican Party: 138–34 (80–20%)
Cloture in the Senate:[21]
Democratic Party: 44–23 (66–34%)
Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)
The Senate version:[20]
Democratic Party: 46–21 (69–31%)
Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)
The Senate version, voted on by the House:[20]
Democratic Party: 153–91 (63–37%)
Republican Party: 136–35 (80–20%)

Click to expand...

More Democrats voted against it to because... wait for it... there were more Democrats. As a percentage, Democrats opposed the legislation at nearly twice the rate as Republicans.

jmotivator said:

More Democrats voted against it to because... wait for it... there were more Democrats. As a percentage, Democrats opposed the legislation at nearly twice the rate as Republicans.

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Yeah southern conservative Democrats:

By party and regionEdit
Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7–93%)
Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0–100%)
Northern Democrats: 145–9 (94–6%)
Northern Republicans: 138–24 (85–15%)
The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5–95%) (only Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0–100%) (John Tower of Texas)
Northern Democrats: 45–1 (98–2%) (only Robert Byrd of West Virginia voted against)
Northern Republicans: 27–5 (84–16%)

JasperL said:

First of all, it's just historical fact that nearly 100% of Democrats not in the former CSA voted for the civil rights bills along with nearly all republicans, and that nearly 100% of white southerners voted against. So the split was white racists in the South versus EVERYONE ELSE.

Like I said, it's so surprising that the GOP hasn't made more gains with the black community by calling them too stupid to know which party has the REAL racists. LOL.

And I imagine at least part of the reason the South aligned with Democrats was because Lincoln and the northern occupiers and reconstructionists and the freed blacks (when they could vote) were Republicans.

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I'm not disputing that, I am simply pointing out that the idea that Southern Democrats flooded to the Republicans because of the CSA is a false narrative since the vast majority of racist Democrats stayed racist Democrats after the CSA was passed.

The 1968 Presidential election saw the Democrats lose the south to an Independent run. 1972 was a landslide for Nixon due to the blow back on Democrats from the Vietnam war. The 1976 Election saw the South right back to voting Democrat again.

Twelve years after the CSA was passed and the Democrats still won all but a handful of Southern voting districts...



...and the Republicans won a landslide in 1972 because of Nixon's promise to end the Vietnam war.

The narrative that racist Democrats fled to the Republican party in the face of righteous Democrat civil warriors is a fairy tale that Democrats tell themselves to rationalize why they lost a decades long grip on government to the Republicans.

pbrauer said:

Yeah southern conservative Democrats

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And when the Democrats are cornered on their implausible narrative of Southern Democrat flight to Republican Party they try to offload the blame on "conservative" Democrats.

Southern Democrats weren't conservative. In fact, on almost every subject the Southern Democrat voted more liberal than did Northern Democrats. The Big secret was that 95+% of Southern Democrats stayed southern Democrats because all big Government Entitlement roads ran through the DNC. The Southern Democrats lost the segregation war in 1964, and the Southern Democrats, robbed of their cohesive segregation plank migrated to the party that best represented them absent segregation. Since they were mostly Big Government liberals, they stayed with the Progressive movement. That Progressives were pushing for legalizing the abortion of brown babies was just icing on the cake.

jmotivator said:

I'm not disputing that, I am simply pointing out that the idea that Southern Democrats flooded to the Republicans because of the CSA is a false narrative since the vast majority of racist Democrats stayed racist Democrats after the CSA was passed.

The 1968 Presidential election saw the Democrats lose the south to an Independent run. 1972 was a landslide for Nixon due to the blow back on Democrats from the Vietnam war. The 1976 Election saw the South right back to voting Democrat again.

Twelve years after the CSA was passed and the Democrats still won all but a handful of Southern voting districts...

...and the Republicans won a landslide in 1972 because of Nixon's promise to end the Vietnam war.

The narrative that racist Democrats fled to the Republican party in the face of righteous Democrat civil warriors is a fairy tale that Democrats tell themselves to rationalize why they lost a decades long grip on government to the Republicans.

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Yeah the southern conservatives voted for Carter over Ford because Carter is a Christian. No surprise there.

jmotivator said:

I'm not disputing that, I am simply pointing out that the idea that Southern Democrats flooded to the Republicans because of the CSA is a false narrative since the vast majority of racist Democrats stayed racist Democrats after the CSA was passed.

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It's not actually what I was arguing. What I was pointing out is the Democratic party had a large Southern white faction and it was that faction that was racist - democrats everywhere else supported the CRA, etc.

And no one claims the transformation of the white south from nearly 100% democratic to nearly 100% republican took place overnight. But it did take place. And blacks in the South were republican in 1960 - now they're almost all democrats. So there WAS a shift. It's in the record. Took a while but it's now nearly complete.

The 1968 Presidential election saw the Democrats lose the south to an Independent run. 1972 was a landslide for Nixon due to the blow back on Democrats from the Vietnam war. The 1976 Election saw the South right back to voting Democrat again.

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Love how you characterize racist George Wallace running on a racist platform, and him winning the South, as an "Independent run." :roll:

Twelve years after the CSA was passed and the Democrats still won all but a handful of Southern voting districts...

...and the Republicans won a landslide in 1972 because of Nixon's promise to end the Vietnam war.

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It's not that simple, but you know that.

The narrative that racist Democrats fled to the Republican party in the face of righteous Democrat civil warriors is a fairy tale that Democrats tell themselves to rationalize why they lost a decades long grip on government to the Republicans.

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I never made that claim. You tarred the entire Democratic party with the attitudes of the racist white conservative Southern democrats - the Dixiecrats. If you want to blame the Democrats for putting up with them and lying in bed with racists, fine. But the racism of the party was concentrated in the former CSA. And that democratic party no longer exists. It's not at all a shift that was only about racists switching sides. Religion, abortion, unions, guns, military, regulations, etc. have all played a role in the shift, especially among working class white southerners. Even when aligned with democrats, Southern democrats were the conservative faction, and often voted with the GOP on many issues.

But if you are a white racist in 2015 and vote for a major party, we both know which party you're most likely to be aligned with, and it's not the one with a Congressional black caucus of 45 members, headed by black man Obama.

So the simple truth of the matter, for lots of reasons, you cannot compare the two parties in 1861 or 1960 to today.

Moot said:

They were called Dixiecrats...but don't fret, they were still right wing conservative segregationists. Not sure, but I think Trent Lott was the last one in congress.



LBJ and Carter were southerners where racism was the norm. Neither would've won the presidency without the southern vote.

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LBJ picked by Kennedy to get the southern vote. Obviously Kennedy was a slavery-loving racist who wanted those votes. :lol:

pbrauer said:

Yeah the southern conservatives voted for Carter over Ford because Carter is a Christian. No surprise there.

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Ummmm Gerald Ford was also a Christian.

jmotivator said:

Ummmm Gerald Ford was also a Christian.

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Perhaps not as not vocal about it as Jimmy Carter was. Being a Christian is almost a requirement when runing for POTUS.

reinoe said:

This is a good idea but I fear if the confederate flag gets hard to acquire then those people will have to reset to flying swastikas instead.

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It will make them easier to identify

that's a good thing

Then I can completely refuse to associate with them, me and a few hundred million, I would imagine.

shrubnose said:

There's a lot of pressure for this to be done.

Eventually it will be done.

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I would be surprised if it happens any time soon. Lot of civil war battlefields and historical sites in Virginia.

JasperL said:

It's not actually what I was arguing. What I was pointing out is the Democratic party had a large Southern white faction and it was that faction that was racist - democrats everywhere else supported the CRA, etc.

And no one claims the transformation of the white south from nearly 100% democratic to nearly 100% republican took place overnight. But it did take place. And blacks in the South were republican in 1960 - now they're almost all democrats. So there WAS a shift. It's in the record. Took a while but it's now nearly complete.

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The change in Southern voting trends were predicated on a change in the role of Government in the lives of the citizens. The change in the black vote is not as dramatic as you want to claim either. While there was not a specific "black vote" tracked until recently, the history of "non-white" voting by Gallup shows the Democrats getting 75-80% of the vote regularly back to 1952, at least. Eisenhower lost the "non-white" vote 79-31, and the Republicans never won the non-White vote even when they were the ones pushing for civil rights.

So no, there was no flood of Democrat racists to the Republican party or black votes from the Republican party to the Democrats. The poor have always voted for the entitlement state which has been Democrat since reconstruction.

Love how you characterize racist George Wallace running on a racist platform, and him winning the South, as an "Independent run." :roll:

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I'm pointing out that Wallace ran as an American Independent, not a Republican.

It's not that simple, but you know that.

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No, it was that simple. McGovern made pledges to end the war as well, but after Kennedy and Johnson's promises the voting public didn't trust that a Democrat would end the war.

I never made that claim. You tarred the entire Democratic party with the attitudes of the racist white conservative Southern democrats - the Dixiecrats. If you want to blame the Democrats for putting up with them and lying in bed with racists, fine. But the racism of the party was concentrated in the former CSA. And that democratic party no longer exists. It's not at all a shift that was only about racists switching sides. Religion, abortion, unions, guns, military, regulations, etc. have all played a role in the shift, especially among working class white southerners. Even when aligned with democrats, Southern democrats were the conservative faction, and often voted with the GOP on many issues.

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Oh, that's rich! You and fellow Democrat supporters make every effort at lumping racist Southern Democrats with conservatives and Republicans and get all pouty when it's pointed out that the racist Southern Democrats weren't actually conservative... and didn't switch the the Republican party. The Southern Democrat block voted dependably progressive on issues:



Like I said, the racist Democrats stayed Democrat because they were progressives, their racist platform had no home port in American politics after 1964 except for a brief stint with George Wallace. They voted for the entitlement state.

But if you are a white racist in 2015 and vote for a major party, we both know which party you're most likely to be aligned with, and it's not the one with a Congressional black caucus of 45 members, headed by black man Obama.

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No, we don't. I know which party you THINK they vote for, but that is just your own personal biases.

So the simple truth of the matter, for lots of reasons, you cannot compare the two parties in 1861 or 1960 to today.

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Sure you can. The Republican Conservative ideology has not changed from it's small-federal-government roots, southern voting changed slowly precisely because there was no big event, no radical switch. The Republican ideology didn't change, the Southerner voters did.