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Thread: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    Customized license plates of any kind seem like a huge waste of money for the government to be spending time on.
    Actually they are very profitable and are sold at a premium to generate more government revenue.

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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Probably a good idea. People should be able to display the flag all day long, but not real sure we have much precedence for a license plate being a pure example of freedom of expression.
    The issue is that we allow the government to decide which groups get to have free speech (on state controlled media) and which groups do not get that "privilege". Who, other than people, form the groups that design specialty plates and request that the state offer them for sale? If PETA gets offended about hunting and/or fishing related plates must they be phased out as well? There is no right not to be offended and the state should not try to please every very vocal (or politically connected?) moron that finds something to be an "offensive" symbol/image.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The issue is that we allow the government to decide which groups get to have free speech (on state controlled media) and which groups do not get that "privilege". Who, other than people, form the groups that design specialty plates and request that the state offer them for sale? If PETA gets offended about hunting and/or fishing related plates must they be phased out as well? There is no right not to be offended and the state should not try to please every very vocal (or politically connected?) moron that finds something to be an "offensive" symbol/image.
    When did the license plate become the individuals exclusive property?
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    When did the license plate become the individuals exclusive property?
    When they pay the state handsomely for the use of their media. If any group/individual gets to have specialty plates then all should be able to do so. The state is not "phasing out" all specialty plates they are editing them differently for only one group.

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    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    So if you liked the looks of the Nazi flag, you should be able to fly it off your front porch without anyone whining about it?
    whining is also part of free speech...but if that goes to far and turns into a public campaign to silence that speech/expression, ..well, a different approach is probably neccessary...especailly if you are going to pretend you respect free speech/expression rights.

    for a more realistic example, I have literally hundreds and hundreds of biker associates... a few of which have Swastika tattoos. I know these dudes aren't showing he symbol according to it's long held historical meaning, instead choosing the white supremacist meaning.
    do i like those tats?.. nope.. sure don't....white supremacy is among the most idiotic things on the planet.
    should i follow the around and whine about it?.. launch a public campaign to ban swastika tattoos?.. I dunno, but i choose, according to my beliefs, to mind my own business and not turn in to a giant whiny brat over them.

    i've even complimented a couple of these guys on their tats , saying to them that i'm glad they are reviving the historical meaning of "good fortune" instead of adopted the crazy bull**** Hitler and white supremacist brought upon us.
    it wasn't true...these cats probably didn't even know the Swastika existed long before Nazis... but i was just doing my part to remove the negative power of that symbol by exerting a positive message on it.
    does doing so change their beliefs?.. nope.... but it does accomplish a few other things...I show i'm opposed to white supremacist bull****, I strip their message from them and replace it with a positive message, and I remove the possibility of them getting defensive while doing so.
    I could choose to whine and cry and say swastika tattoos should be demonized and call for tattoo artists to stop giving them... but that's not a very effective way to go about things... doing so only adds conflict.

    So free speech for you and anyone who disagrees with your speech just needs to STFU?
    free speech/expression is for everyone...that's exactly why I think public campaigns, like the one we are seeing, to make certain expressions/speech go away is misguided.
    the folks who hate this flag cannot say they respect free speech/expression... not when their end game is to silence that speech/expression.... that's just a fact.
    when you actively seek a conflict, you're going to get one... conflicts leads to defensiveness, rash decisions, animosity, and whole host of negatives.


    I'm just trying to get your position straight. We all get that you have the right to fly any damn thing you want, so I'm not sure why you keep using the word "ban." Literally no one is talking about a ban of that flag.
    well, i don't buy that any of you think anyone has the right to fly the flag... I believe, at best, that's a partial lie.
    y'all are talking about the government respecting your free speech rights...but nothing beyond that... respecting free speech, to me, goes beyond simply saying the government shouldn't sanction you.

    my position comes from a different perspective.... while some think banishing the expression from their sight makes things all better, i believe such campaigns gives too much power to symbols and the meaning they assign to them.
    I prefer to not allow things i dislike live rent free in my head... and i prefer to strip the meaning and power from stuff i don't like.

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Very cool, the current symbol of racists everywhere, including racists in the S.C. legislature and Governors office in the 1960s who fought like hell to prevent their black citizens from having the same rights as their white ones. Can't believe the hypersensitive PC sissies can't just ignore the flag's history and appreciate the cool design.....
    I CAN believe hypersenstive PC sissies can't ignore he flags history and appreciate the cool design...i accept that reality.
    I don't accept that they are tackling the issue properly.

    I also don't buy that the State of South Carolina is racist..... y'all might need to believe that, but it's not true.
    you're stuck on a meaning of a symbol from a bygone era.... choosing to believe it has the same exact meaning as it once did.

    slavery and racism are no longer part of that state.. and haven't been for a very very long time.... yet some choose to refuse to see that, instead choosing to pretend nothing has changed since 1864.
    as has been pointed out , the US flag has flown over some of history's worst atrocities, and yet no one chooses to assign those atrocities to that flag... even though the were worse and longer lasting than anything that happened under the stars and bars.
    correctly, imo, other, more positive, meanings are assigned to the US flag.. freedom, liberty, democracy, glory, honor.. etc..... yet simple minded whiners are incapable of doing so with the star and bars, choosing instead to stay stuck in the 1860's as if that meaning is all it ever can hold.

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Democrat Governor demands state erase state's Democratic Party history.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    ....
    i've even complimented a couple of these guys on their tats , saying to them that i'm glad they are reviving the historical meaning of "good fortune" instead of adopted the crazy bull**** Hitler and white supremacist brought upon us.
    it wasn't true...these cats probably didn't even know the Swastika existed long before Nazis... but i was just doing my part to remove the negative power of that symbol by exerting a positive message on it.
    That's a great way to deal with the issue in my view, and I respect it. And I've never whined or otherwise complained if someone around here, and there are many, wear a Confederate shirt of fly the flag off their pickup or Harley. It's their business if they want to announce to the world they're a racist or an idiot. I don't care that Walmart sold that stuff.

    The problem in this discussion, or most of it, is we're talking about the State approving that symbol. It's different if some biker has a Swastika tat versus the Commonwealth of Virginia producing vanity Nazi license plates with a Swastika in the middle.

    The State of SC (and others) unfurled the Confederate Flag atop their capital building at a time when they were fighting AGAINST equal rights for blacks, and that flag remained for nearly 40 years. A decent group of elected officials is embarrassed about those acts in the 1960s, repudiates them, and promises those days are long past. Part of that process, IMO, should be the same rejection/repudiation of the symbol under which the STATE fought against equal rights.

    Instead the elected officials took a different path and told us we should be proud of our "Southern Heritage" but obviously not the racist part of that heritage when enslaved blacks, and afterward when we denied blacks the vote, watched without protest as they were lynched and murdered, etc. and the way they show they repudiated that racist past is to embrace the banner under which the elected racist leaders of the state fought to maintain the Jim Crow era.

    Sorry, but those acts don't really compute.

    free speech/expression is for everyone...that's exactly why I think public campaigns, like the one we are seeing, to make certain expressions/speech go away is misguided.
    I actually agree with that in a way. But part of the whole "embrace our Southern Heritage" and the Confederate flag as a symbol of that is a whitewash of history (no pun intended) and an attempt to sweep away and never really confront the centuries of oppression of blacks that are an integral part of that "heritage" all the way through the 1960s.

    I'm proud of where I live, the people are I think some of the best in the country. But if I choose to celebrate that history, then as a matter of decency and common courtesy, I think I owe it to the black population that was systematically oppressed in my state for centuries to choose a symbol other than one that the oppressors used while fighting to keep them second class citizens. Not because someone told me to, but because it is the decent thing to do as a sign of good will and respect. And if I'd do it, the dang elected officials sure as hell ought to because they are elected to in part REPRESENT those folks in government.


    the folks who hate this flag cannot say they respect free speech/expression... not when their end game is to silence that speech/expression.... that's just a fact.
    when you actively seek a conflict, you're going to get one... conflicts leads to defensiveness, rash decisions, animosity, and whole host of negatives.
    Sure they can. Protest of anything is a vital part of free speech - the whole point of the First Amendment is to protect that kind of speech. In the second part above, you object to the subject of protest or the tactics, but if you respect free speech, you can't condemn people for engaging in it, although you can disagree with what they say or when they say it.

    well, i don't buy that any of you think anyone has the right to fly the flag... I believe, at best, that's a partial lie.
    y'all are talking about the government respecting your free speech rights...but nothing beyond that... respecting free speech, to me, goes beyond simply saying the government shouldn't sanction you.
    But speech in opposition, protest, disagreement, debate, argument, etc. are all virtuous, a necessary part of a decent society. I'm really not at all clear what you expect.

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Democrat Governor demands state erase state's Democratic Party history.
    Nah, the people trying to erase history are the ones celebrating "Southern Heritage" under a flag flown by racists. So we celebrate Southern Heritage, but definitely NOT the racist part, by flying a flag flown by racists during that racist period, and still embraced by racist dirtbags everywhere! Brilliant!!

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Then maybe it was never a flag FOR slavery.
    We can ask the pro slavery folks of the Klan why they love it so.

    Not all who fly that flag are white racist, but pretty much all white racists fly that flag.

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