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Thread: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    First of all, it's just historical fact that nearly 100% of Democrats not in the former CSA voted for the civil rights bills along with nearly all republicans, and that nearly 100% of white southerners voted against. So the split was white racists in the South versus EVERYONE ELSE.

    Like I said, it's so surprising that the GOP hasn't made more gains with the black community by calling them too stupid to know which party has the REAL racists. LOL.

    And I imagine at least part of the reason the South aligned with Democrats was because Lincoln and the northern occupiers and reconstructionists and the freed blacks (when they could vote) were Republicans.
    I'm not disputing that, I am simply pointing out that the idea that Southern Democrats flooded to the Republicans because of the CSA is a false narrative since the vast majority of racist Democrats stayed racist Democrats after the CSA was passed.

    The 1968 Presidential election saw the Democrats lose the south to an Independent run. 1972 was a landslide for Nixon due to the blow back on Democrats from the Vietnam war. The 1976 Election saw the South right back to voting Democrat again.

    Twelve years after the CSA was passed and the Democrats still won all but a handful of Southern voting districts...



    ...and the Republicans won a landslide in 1972 because of Nixon's promise to end the Vietnam war.

    The narrative that racist Democrats fled to the Republican party in the face of righteous Democrat civil warriors is a fairy tale that Democrats tell themselves to rationalize why they lost a decades long grip on government to the Republicans.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 06-25-15 at 10:04 AM.
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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Yeah southern conservative Democrats
    And when the Democrats are cornered on their implausible narrative of Southern Democrat flight to Republican Party they try to offload the blame on "conservative" Democrats.

    Southern Democrats weren't conservative. In fact, on almost every subject the Southern Democrat voted more liberal than did Northern Democrats. The Big secret was that 95+% of Southern Democrats stayed southern Democrats because all big Government Entitlement roads ran through the DNC. The Southern Democrats lost the segregation war in 1964, and the Southern Democrats, robbed of their cohesive segregation plank migrated to the party that best represented them absent segregation. Since they were mostly Big Government liberals, they stayed with the Progressive movement. That Progressives were pushing for legalizing the abortion of brown babies was just icing on the cake.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 06-25-15 at 10:40 AM.
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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I'm not disputing that, I am simply pointing out that the idea that Southern Democrats flooded to the Republicans because of the CSA is a false narrative since the vast majority of racist Democrats stayed racist Democrats after the CSA was passed.

    The 1968 Presidential election saw the Democrats lose the south to an Independent run. 1972 was a landslide for Nixon due to the blow back on Democrats from the Vietnam war. The 1976 Election saw the South right back to voting Democrat again.

    Twelve years after the CSA was passed and the Democrats still won all but a handful of Southern voting districts...



    ...and the Republicans won a landslide in 1972 because of Nixon's promise to end the Vietnam war.

    The narrative that racist Democrats fled to the Republican party in the face of righteous Democrat civil warriors is a fairy tale that Democrats tell themselves to rationalize why they lost a decades long grip on government to the Republicans.
    Yeah the southern conservatives voted for Carter over Ford because Carter is a Christian. No surprise there.


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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I'm not disputing that, I am simply pointing out that the idea that Southern Democrats flooded to the Republicans because of the CSA is a false narrative since the vast majority of racist Democrats stayed racist Democrats after the CSA was passed.
    It's not actually what I was arguing. What I was pointing out is the Democratic party had a large Southern white faction and it was that faction that was racist - democrats everywhere else supported the CRA, etc.

    And no one claims the transformation of the white south from nearly 100% democratic to nearly 100% republican took place overnight. But it did take place. And blacks in the South were republican in 1960 - now they're almost all democrats. So there WAS a shift. It's in the record. Took a while but it's now nearly complete.

    The 1968 Presidential election saw the Democrats lose the south to an Independent run. 1972 was a landslide for Nixon due to the blow back on Democrats from the Vietnam war. The 1976 Election saw the South right back to voting Democrat again.
    Love how you characterize racist George Wallace running on a racist platform, and him winning the South, as an "Independent run."

    Twelve years after the CSA was passed and the Democrats still won all but a handful of Southern voting districts...

    ...and the Republicans won a landslide in 1972 because of Nixon's promise to end the Vietnam war.
    It's not that simple, but you know that.

    The narrative that racist Democrats fled to the Republican party in the face of righteous Democrat civil warriors is a fairy tale that Democrats tell themselves to rationalize why they lost a decades long grip on government to the Republicans.
    I never made that claim. You tarred the entire Democratic party with the attitudes of the racist white conservative Southern democrats - the Dixiecrats. If you want to blame the Democrats for putting up with them and lying in bed with racists, fine. But the racism of the party was concentrated in the former CSA. And that democratic party no longer exists. It's not at all a shift that was only about racists switching sides. Religion, abortion, unions, guns, military, regulations, etc. have all played a role in the shift, especially among working class white southerners. Even when aligned with democrats, Southern democrats were the conservative faction, and often voted with the GOP on many issues.

    But if you are a white racist in 2015 and vote for a major party, we both know which party you're most likely to be aligned with, and it's not the one with a Congressional black caucus of 45 members, headed by black man Obama.

    So the simple truth of the matter, for lots of reasons, you cannot compare the two parties in 1861 or 1960 to today.

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    They were called Dixiecrats...but don't fret, they were still right wing conservative segregationists. Not sure, but I think Trent Lott was the last one in congress.



    LBJ and Carter were southerners where racism was the norm. Neither would've won the presidency without the southern vote.
    LBJ picked by Kennedy to get the southern vote. Obviously Kennedy was a slavery-loving racist who wanted those votes.
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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Yeah the southern conservatives voted for Carter over Ford because Carter is a Christian. No surprise there.
    Ummmm Gerald Ford was also a Christian.
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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Ummmm Gerald Ford was also a Christian.
    Perhaps not as not vocal about it as Jimmy Carter was. Being a Christian is almost a requirement when runing for POTUS.


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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    This is a good idea but I fear if the confederate flag gets hard to acquire then those people will have to reset to flying swastikas instead.
    It will make them easier to identify

    that's a good thing

    Then I can completely refuse to associate with them, me and a few hundred million, I would imagine.

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    There's a lot of pressure for this to be done.

    Eventually it will be done.
    I would be surprised if it happens any time soon. Lot of civil war battlefields and historical sites in Virginia.

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    Re: Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's not actually what I was arguing. What I was pointing out is the Democratic party had a large Southern white faction and it was that faction that was racist - democrats everywhere else supported the CRA, etc.

    And no one claims the transformation of the white south from nearly 100% democratic to nearly 100% republican took place overnight. But it did take place. And blacks in the South were republican in 1960 - now they're almost all democrats. So there WAS a shift. It's in the record. Took a while but it's now nearly complete.
    The change in Southern voting trends were predicated on a change in the role of Government in the lives of the citizens. The change in the black vote is not as dramatic as you want to claim either. While there was not a specific "black vote" tracked until recently, the history of "non-white" voting by Gallup shows the Democrats getting 75-80% of the vote regularly back to 1952, at least. Eisenhower lost the "non-white" vote 79-31, and the Republicans never won the non-White vote even when they were the ones pushing for civil rights.

    So no, there was no flood of Democrat racists to the Republican party or black votes from the Republican party to the Democrats. The poor have always voted for the entitlement state which has been Democrat since reconstruction.

    Love how you characterize racist George Wallace running on a racist platform, and him winning the South, as an "Independent run."
    I'm pointing out that Wallace ran as an American Independent, not a Republican.

    It's not that simple, but you know that.
    No, it was that simple. McGovern made pledges to end the war as well, but after Kennedy and Johnson's promises the voting public didn't trust that a Democrat would end the war.


    I never made that claim. You tarred the entire Democratic party with the attitudes of the racist white conservative Southern democrats - the Dixiecrats. If you want to blame the Democrats for putting up with them and lying in bed with racists, fine. But the racism of the party was concentrated in the former CSA. And that democratic party no longer exists. It's not at all a shift that was only about racists switching sides. Religion, abortion, unions, guns, military, regulations, etc. have all played a role in the shift, especially among working class white southerners. Even when aligned with democrats, Southern democrats were the conservative faction, and often voted with the GOP on many issues.
    Oh, that's rich! You and fellow Democrat supporters make every effort at lumping racist Southern Democrats with conservatives and Republicans and get all pouty when it's pointed out that the racist Southern Democrats weren't actually conservative... and didn't switch the the Republican party. The Southern Democrat block voted dependably progressive on issues:



    Like I said, the racist Democrats stayed Democrat because they were progressives, their racist platform had no home port in American politics after 1964 except for a brief stint with George Wallace. They voted for the entitlement state.

    But if you are a white racist in 2015 and vote for a major party, we both know which party you're most likely to be aligned with, and it's not the one with a Congressional black caucus of 45 members, headed by black man Obama.
    No, we don't. I know which party you THINK they vote for, but that is just your own personal biases.

    So the simple truth of the matter, for lots of reasons, you cannot compare the two parties in 1861 or 1960 to today.
    Sure you can. The Republican Conservative ideology has not changed from it's small-federal-government roots, southern voting changed slowly precisely because there was no big event, no radical switch. The Republican ideology didn't change, the Southerner voters did.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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