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Marines looking at deploying aboard foreign ships

Our military can be deployed if it hitches a ride with other nations.

This happens when ship numbers haven't caught up to recruitment numbers and because the waiting list has multiple demands. It was already explained to you and you completely glossed over it. Why are you so in denial?
 
Right how, the U.S. remains the world's foremost power. However, it is important to be able to wage and win more limited conflicts than existential ones. Otherwise, its interests and allies will be in a weakened position, as it is unlikely that the U.S. would threaten the destruction of another country or countries, much less carry it out, if only its own vital or critical interests were not at stake.

That the number of U.S. combat troops has been decreasing and that the U.S. was not able to secure conclusive outcomes in either Afghanistan or Iraq (regardless of what one things of the decisions to go to war) suggests that the U.S. has areas where it needs to improve.

You are correct which is why strategically, this is a very unwise move.
 
This happens when ship numbers haven't caught up to recruitment numbers and because the waiting list has multiple demands. It was already explained to you and you completely glossed over it. Why are you so in denial?

I dont blame people for not wanting to go into the military under Obama, but the fact remains that we can't fulfill missions because of Obama's budget cuts as mentioned in the OP-you did read the article, right?
 
Right how, the U.S. remains the world's foremost power. However, it is important to be able to wage and win more limited conflicts than existential ones. Otherwise, its interests and allies will be in a weakened position, as it is unlikely that the U.S. would threaten the destruction of another country or countries, much less carry it out, if only its own vital or critical interests were not at stake.

That the number of U.S. combat troops has been decreasing and that the U.S. was not able to secure conclusive outcomes in either Afghanistan or Iraq (regardless of what one things of the decisions to go to war) suggests that the U.S. has areas where it needs to improve.

Combat troops decrease as technological capabilities advance. What use to take special forces, and entire battalions (I'm being facetious here) of people to accomplish can now be done with a drone, and a 25 year old sitting in Virginia. This has little to do with actual ship building capabilities as has already been explained.
 
I dont blame people for not wanting to go into the military under Obama, but the fact remains that we can't fulfill missions because of Obama's budget cuts as mentioned in the OP-you did read the article, right?

You failure to address anything which has been posted is noted.
 
Purchasing parity. You can't just compare budgets, you have to look at what you get for the money. And in any case, allowing our military to shrink to the point that our marines (who are still needed hence the deployment) have to hitch a ride with euros. Its shameful, but then again so is this president.

Purchasing parity inb4 China's per capita sucks ****.
 
Combat troops decrease as technological capabilities advance. What use to take special forces, and entire battalions (I'm being facetious here) of people to accomplish can now be done with a drone, and a 25 year old sitting in Virginia. This has little to do with actual ship building capabilities as has already been explained.

My points were limited to limitation of using total military expenditures to compare nations and the need for a flexible response capability. A choice between non-response or total destruction promotes rigidity. Arguments that conventional forces were relatively unimportant given the huge U.S. nuclear arsenal were common during the 1970s and 1980s.

I don't disagree that technological improvement has substituted in some cases for manpower. Nonetheless, the suboptimal outcomes in Afghanistan and Iraq suggest caution in making the argument that all of the reduction in combat forces that has occurred since the end of the Cold War and especially the 2000s has not had at least some adverse impact on overall U.S. capabilities and the more important matter of deterring would-be enemies.
 
My points were limited to limitation of using total military expenditures to compare nations and the need for a flexible response capability. A choice between non-response or total destruction promotes rigidity. Arguments that conventional forces were relatively unimportant given the huge U.S. nuclear arsenal were common during the 1970s and 1980s.

I don't disagree that technological improvement has substituted in some cases for manpower. Nonetheless, the suboptimal outcomes in Afghanistan and Iraq suggest caution in making the argument that all of the reduction in combat forces that has occurred since the end of the Cold War and especially the 2000s has not had at least some adverse impact on overall U.S. capabilities and the more important matter of deterring would-be enemies.

Agreed, and beyond that our military leaders have said as much.
 
One needs to be cautious about using only total expenditures for a number of reasons. First, purchasing power differs. For example, according to official statistics (which may understate military expenditures by Russia and China for obvious regions e.g., to mask support for strategic programs), China's and Russia's military expenditures are just under 50% of U.S. expenditures. However, on a PPP-basis, their spending is about 80% of U.S. spending. Second, allocation of spending also matters. The U.S. spends a higher share of its military budget on salaries and benefits than do either Russia or China. Third, inefficient practices e.g., the military bidding-contracting-delivery process can also reduce the benefits of spending. The Pentagon has had a chronic history of cost-overruns and delays in numerous big-ticket programs (e.g., the F-35). Data concerning such issues in Russia and China aren't public--almost certainly some inefficiencies exist but the extent is unknown. This inefficiency should be a focus of reform, as programs that ultimately produce weapons systems at twice or three times the cost originally set forth in accepted bids are wasteful and they undercut the power impact from military investments.

Are people really trying to say that at this very moment the US armed forces are not the biggest, baddest fighting force in the world? Swollen far beyond truly defensive needs. (You must leave out all gratuitous military adventurism to answer that correctly)
 
As is your failure to address the OP.

I did, it specifically addressed military ship building capabilities, actual military capabilities, and compared it to those of other militaries. You've gone one some weird tangent about Obama, as per usual. :shrug:
 
I did, it specifically addressed military ship building capabilities, actual military capabilities, and compared it to those of other militaries. You've gone one some weird tangent about Obama, as per usual. :shrug:

Where did it compare military capabilities to other nations?
I noticed you skipped over where it said this is a very bad position to be in, a stop gap.

All on Obama's watch-no need to pin a ribbon on failure-Obama dropped the ball again.

Its ok to admit it.
 
My points were limited to limitation of using total military expenditures to compare nations and the need for a flexible response capability. A choice between non-response or total destruction promotes rigidity. Arguments that conventional forces were relatively unimportant given the huge U.S. nuclear arsenal were common during the 1970s and 1980s.

I don't disagree that technological improvement has substituted in some cases for manpower. Nonetheless, the suboptimal outcomes in Afghanistan and Iraq suggest caution in making the argument that all of the reduction in combat forces that has occurred since the end of the Cold War and especially the 2000s has not had at least some adverse impact on overall U.S. capabilities and the more important matter of deterring would-be enemies.

Terribly planned wars, with little information about the people who we're supposed to be fighting tend to have suboptimal outcomes. That says literally nothing about our actual capabilities which is what the OP addressed. The point was simple: Anyone who thinks the Russians and Chinese are emboldened by a small drop in military spending after decades of growth is simply fooling themselves. :shrug:
 
Where did it compare military capabilities to other nations?

Reading is your friend:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ying-aboard-foreign-ships.html#post1064743829

No other military or combination of militaries could even begin to inflict the slightest numbers of casualties on the United States military in a conventional war.

Consider: The U.S. spends close to what the entire rest of the world spends in defense. $711 billion. Per year. The next closest is China at $143 billion.

The M1 Abrams tank has seen more combat than just about any other tank on the battlefield today. It has never been knocked out by enemy fire. (Completely killed). Ever.

China has less than 500 Type 99 tanks, that have just been developed, and are not even close to being as good as the Abrams. We have 8,700 Abrams.

We have 10 aircraft carriers. The good kind. Everyone else has 10. Combined. And they are mostly small ships that can launch helicopters.

There are 8,400 attack helicopters in the world. The U.S. has 6,400 of them.

The United States has engaged in every type of ground warfare in the last 20 years. From mountains to jungles, and from desert to urban, we have the some of the most experienced warriors in the world. No other country comes close to the amount of combat veterans that we have.

We own all the satellites that guide GPS systems. We have all the advanced stealth technology. The latest sensors? U.S. The latest information systems? U.S. An Abrams tank can see a target, the tank commander can instantly send that target to every tank in his company.

I noticed you skipped over where it said this is a very bad position to be in, a stop gap.

All on Obama's watch-no need to pin a ribbon on failure-Obama dropped the ball again.

Its ok to admit it.



Lol. Your uneducated assessment that this a bad position to be in? It's nonsense. We could literally cut our budget in half and we'd still be able to take on any military in the world. This is supported by actual military members. Not some guy on the internet pretending he knows what's he's talking about. All of your non-points have been refuted. Now, if you want to play shifty and say you were talking about proxy wars, that's fine but our ship building capabilities have little to do with proxy wars. :shrug:
 
Reading is your friend:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ying-aboard-foreign-ships.html#post1064743829







Lol. Your uneducated assessment that this a bad position to be in? It's nonsense. We could literally cut our budget in half and we'd still be able to take on any military in the world. This is supported by actual military members. Not some guy on the internet pretending he knows what's he's talking about. All of your non-points have been refuted. Now, if you want to play shifty and say you were talking about proxy wars, that's fine but our ship building capabilities have little to do with proxy wars. :shrug:

Our military can't even meet its mission demands in peacetime-to the point that we are reduced to accepting rides from euros. If thats your definition of success you are content pinning a ribbon on failure.
 
Our military can't even meet its mission demands in peacetime-to the point that we are reduced to accepting rides from euros. If thats your definition of success you are content pinning a ribbon on failure.

Still unable to actually address what is being written? It's okay to admit it, you know. I specifically addressed the same thing as YOUR OP. That is our material capabilities. We literally could blow anybody out of the water twice over and not flinch. If you think a small drop in our budget, and measures being taken to deal with a shortage of ships - WHILE WE STILL HAVE MORE RESOURCES THAN ANY OF OUR POTENTIAL ENEMIES COMBINED - means that we're weak, that's on you. It's being laughed at by anybody with common sense.
 
I dont disagree with what you are saying, but we shouldn't have gotten into this situation in the first place. And this isn't a time of total war, we "technically" aren't even fighting a war at the moment. Its shortsighted to even be in this predicament.

Exactly. Bush's War was and is to this day a costly cockup. I can't think of a greater military blunder in my lifetime. Saying that was shortsighted is being kind.
 
Still unable to actually address what is being written? It's okay to admit it, you know. I specifically addressed the same thing as YOUR OP. That is our material capabilities. We literally could blow anybody out of the water twice over and not flinch. If you think a small drop in our budget, and measures being taken to deal with a shortage of ships - WHILE WE STILL HAVE MORE RESOURCES THAN ANY OF OUR POTENTIAL ENEMIES COMBINED - means that we're weak, that's on you. It's being laughed at by anybody with common sense.

You are confusing what you'd like the militaries role to be with its actual role.
photo2.jpg

(PICTURED: Failure)
 
Didn't take long for BOOOSH!!!!!!

Uhh, it's a significant factor in the current depletion of our military effectiveness, wouldn't you say?

Are you going to stop talking about the ACA after November 2016?
 

Yep. The pro war crowd, those that want the US to control the world don't care about that, they want more. But just watch them bitch and moan at the thought we might give kids breakfast when they get to school. They need that money to take on Russia, China, Iran, and whoever else they'll be telling us is our feared enemy.
 
Yep. The pro war crowd, those that want the US to control the world don't care about that, they want more. But just watch them bitch and moan at the thought we might give kids breakfast when they get to school. They need that money to take on Russia, China, Iran, and whoever else they'll be telling us is our feared enemy.

not to mention that most of them are unwilling to pay a wartime tax rate in order to fund the constant state of war that they demand.
 
Lol, our military budget is still 3x those of China and 7x those of Russia. It's also 40% above anything before 2001. It makes you wonder how we survived back then. En tout cast, the belief that they're emboldened is nothing but ignorant nonsense. Stop trying to be rational.

DOD GDP.jpg
 
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