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Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

Should the flag be moved-removed from all State Buildings?


  • Total voters
    70
Of course it matters what Lincoln was fighting for - it was his war.
No, not in the context of removing the Confederate flag because of what it represents, your argument is a red herring.
The South was fighting to keep the union troops from burning and destroying everything in sight.
So now your argument is the Confederacy was fighting to stop the economic destruction of the Antebellum South.....guess what, you are getting warm....while ignoring that the South initiated the fighting..but that aside, you are getting on the right track.


They failed, but that doesn't mean they did not honor their states. Less than 5% of the people ever owned slaves of benefited from the slave trade. The vast, vast majority fought to survive. The union was ruthless in battle and in the Reconstruction that followed.
Pointless, you are avoiding what the Confederacy, and by extension....what the flag represents.
 
I did not say they were, you created a straw argument. The argument is what the Confederacy represented, what the flag represents. It represents a slave based economic system which the Confederacy fought to preserve.

It represented different things to different people. Ive seen black people with confederate flags.

I think at this point (150 years after the civil war) its more a southern cultural/pride thing.
 
Removing a flag doesn't remove history or culture.

You're right, but it's basically trampling on the culture - saying, it's not worthy of notice or remembrance. This is happening too often and not just with the rebel flag. We have people advocating bans on the American flag because it makes some feel hurt and oppressed. Where do we stop?

In our nation's capital is a statue of Thomas Jefferson, one of the greatest of our Founders. He owned slaves. Should we tear the statue down and remove Jefferson from our paper money?

German Strafgesetzbuch § 86a outlaws the Swastika and numerous other objects of Nazi symbolism, but certainly nobody currently living in the developed world is unaware of Nazi history.

That act only lent more negative power to the nazi symbol. And the sad thing about the swastika banning is that the symbol long predated Hitler. It was used by the Native American as a "well being" symbol and it also appeared throughout the ancient world. We lost all that when it was banned. And, we gained nothing. Now, it truly does represent only hate - it's picked up by supremicist groups and all who see it shudder.

History not withstanding I think that there's a lot of value in removing a symbol which, while it might serve as a source of pride for some, is also a source of pain for many others.

Symbols have only the meaning we give them. What we're seeing is a theft of history and culture.

If you want Confederate history you can always get it from a book, or from some means other than jamming your thumb in the eye of the state's 30% African American population.

This is what I mean exactly. Political correctness has raped history and rewritten it to suit its own agenda. You might call that a victory - but I think it's quite sad.
 
You're right, but it's basically trampling on the culture - saying, it's not worthy of notice or remembrance. This is happening too often and not just with the rebel flag. We have people advocating bans on the American flag because it makes some feel hurt and oppressed. Where do we stop?

In our nation's capital is a statue of Thomas Jefferson, one of the greatest of our Founders. He owned slaves. Should we tear the statue down and remove Jefferson from our paper money?



That act only lent more negative power to the nazi symbol. And the sad thing about the swastika banning is that the symbol long predated Hitler. It was used by the Native American as a "well being" symbol and it also appeared throughout the ancient world. We lost all that when it was banned. And, we gained nothing. Now, it truly does represent only hate - it's picked up by supremicist groups and all who see it shudder.



Symbols have only the meaning we give them. What we're seeing is a theft of history and culture.



This is what I mean exactly. Political correctness has raped history and rewritten it to suit its own agenda. You might call that a victory - but I think it's quite sad.

I agree, Im getting sick and tired of the Orwellian PC police telling everyone what they can't do.
 
Not everyone was fighting for slavery, to many they fought to protect their homes and to defend against what was seen as federal govt intervention. There is more cultural significance than slavery in that flag, and I say that as someone who's family fought for the north.

I don't have a dog in this fight-but if the citizens of that state want it, it should be allowed.

At the time the Union had not yet started to abolish slavery in the south. The North and the South were arguing prior to the war over whether slavery should be allowed in new states. When Lincoln was elected many in the South figured he was against them and decided to secede. There was nothing to fight to protect against at that time. The North wasn't invading. There is nothing to really state that the Union would have attempted to abolish slavery if not for the failed rebellion. At some point I'm sure it would have happened, but probably not when it did. Every factor of the south seceding ties directly back to slavery. Slavery is what divided the North and South. The confederate flag represented slavery, and is a symbol of oppression even today.
 
Pfffff. Hillary couldn't win SC in the general election if she personally handed each and every SC voter a check for fifty grand.

The primary maybe.



BO knows how to stir things up, huh? Its either do it now or let it linger and give the MS Media some more playtime with the issue. All going into election mode.
 
I would respectfully move the battle flag to a war memorial on state land. Then, deed the immdieate land to a confederate heritage group. The group would then be responsible for maintaining the site.

With State funds if and when needed to maintain should also be included. just my thoughts.
 
This is what I mean exactly. Political correctness has raped history and rewritten it to suit its own agenda. You might call that a victory - but I think it's quite sad.

If you're interested in history, trace the recent history of the Confederate flag, when it saw a huge resurgence in popularity across the former Confederacy. Find out what year it was first raised on the State Capitol in SC. For some strange reason, it coincided with Southern opposition to integration and civil rights for blacks.

Were it not for that history, MAYBE the case could be made that it's all about history and southern pride and all that , but the fact is that flag became popular when states were defending Jim Crow and Federal attempts to roll back institutionalized, state sanctioned white supremacy.
 
It represented different things to different people. Ive seen black people with confederate flags.

I think at this point (150 years after the civil war) its more a southern cultural/pride thing.
I have never understood how one can have "pride" in a racist, losing "cause". That is so f*cked up.
 
This is what happens when we let public schools rob our children of history, and replace it with political correctness.
This is a cute meme that is ignoring the fact that I am directly dealing with what the Confederate govt was defending...and it is directly countering your claims....which you have apparently decided to drop.
 
This is what happens when we let public schools rob our children of history, and replace it with political correctness.

The public schools I attended in Tennessee never had us read some of the states' declarations of secession, which make the point crystal clear what the war was all about and why the South seceded. I'm embarrassed to admit I was over 40 before I looked them up and read them. Until then I thought there could be a case for a somewhat more nuanced cause for that war. But when the states say, paraphrased for brevity, "It's all about slavery" when they secede, you sort of have to take their word for it.
 
This is what happens when we let public schools rob our children of history, and replace it with political correctness.

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.
 
If you're interested in history, trace the recent history of the Confederate flag, when it saw a huge resurgence in popularity across the former Confederacy. Find out what year it was first raised on the State Capitol in SC. For some strange reason, it coincided with Southern opposition to integration and civil rights for blacks.

Were it not for that history, MAYBE the case could be made that it's all about history and southern pride and all that , but the fact is that flag became popular when states were defending Jim Crow and Federal attempts to roll back institutionalized, state sanctioned white supremacy.

Photography is one of the most powerful ways to understand history. During the civil rights movement in the 50s and 60s, it was normal to see white Southerners in favor of segregation waving their flags in the faces of protesters. It was a counter protest of sorts.

BE026043-e1320680748250.jpg


12UP-JimCrow-articleLarge.jpg


st-petersberg-florida-demonstrators-support-segregation-woman-holds-CWCCXB.jpg


FP001194.jpg


confed-flag-dallas.jpg


People want to continue perpetuating this lie that the confederacy existed to do anything other than preserve slavery and enforce racist ideals that had become taboo even by the 1800s. However, they can't really dispute history or the amount of primary evidence that shows this to be nothing more than whitewashing.
 
Of course it matters what Lincoln was fighting for - it was his war.

The South was fighting to keep the union troops from burning and destroying everything in sight. They failed, but that doesn't mean they did not honor their states. Less than 5% of the people ever owned slaves of benefited from the slave trade. The vast, vast majority fought to survive. The union was ruthless in battle and in the Reconstruction that followed.
The South was fighting to destroy our country. The North as fighting in self-defense after Southerners attacked a defenseless Ft. Sumter.
 
This is what happens when we let public schools rob our children of history, and replace it with political correctness.


This is what happens.....when BO peep calls for reflection from the lost sheep.




'Black Lives Matter': Graffiti appears on Confederate statue in Charleston.....


Graffiti that appeared on a Confederate memorial in Charleston, S.C., was covered up Sunday as the city continues to mourn the victims of last week's shooting massacre at a historic black church.

The inscription on the base of the statue — which honors the "Confederate Defenders of Charleston" who died at Fort Sumter — was covered in the red, spray-painted message, "Black Lives Matter." "This is the problem," graffiti on another side of the memorial read. "#Racist."

The memorial, erected in 1932 in Charleston's White Point Garden, stands less than 2 miles from Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, where nine black people were killed by a white gunman Wednesday during a Bible study session.....snip~

'Black Lives Matter': Graffiti appears on Confederate statue in Charleston


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With State funds if and when needed to maintain should also be included. just my thoughts.

If state funds are used, then South Carolina will have to contend with calls advocating that state funds not be used to support flying the confederate flag. Also, I think there is enough private support in South Carolina of confederate heritage to maintain a memorial indefinetly.

The South was fighting to destroy our country. The North as fighting in self-defense after Southerners attacked a defenseless Ft. Sumter.
So why did they feel compelled to invade southeren states that never attacked a federal garrison?
 
YAY the stupid redneck flag is removed yay!!!!!!!
 
This is what happens.....when BO peep calls for reflection from the lost sheep.




'Black Lives Matter': Graffiti appears on Confederate statue in Charleston.....


Graffiti that appeared on a Confederate memorial in Charleston, S.C., was covered up Sunday as the city continues to mourn the victims of last week's shooting massacre at a historic black church.

The inscription on the base of the statue — which honors the "Confederate Defenders of Charleston" who died at Fort Sumter — was covered in the red, spray-painted message, "Black Lives Matter." "This is the problem," graffiti on another side of the memorial read. "#Racist."

The memorial, erected in 1932 in Charleston's White Point Garden, stands less than 2 miles from Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, where nine black people were killed by a white gunman Wednesday during a Bible study session.....snip~

'Black Lives Matter': Graffiti appears on Confederate statue in Charleston


CICJzhhWoAEQa_n.jpg

CICJ4YVWwAAAZLS.jpg

CICJ4ZUW8AEfTDJ.jpg

CICTkwyWEAA4whd.jpg



"Black lives matter...."

Whites, ah what the hell......we were slaves..

your man wants a race war. He thinks he can win.
 
At the time the Union had not yet started to abolish slavery in the south. The North and the South were arguing prior to the war over whether slavery should be allowed in new states. When Lincoln was elected many in the South figured he was against them and decided to secede. There was nothing to fight to protect against at that time. The North wasn't invading. There is nothing to really state that the Union would have attempted to abolish slavery if not for the failed rebellion. At some point I'm sure it would have happened, but probably not when it did. Every factor of the south seceding ties directly back to slavery. Slavery is what divided the North and South. The confederate flag represented slavery, and is a symbol of oppression even today.

You appear to have missed the point that Lincoln was the first elected (2nd candidate) from the Republican party, which was anti slavery. The south knew what that meant. In any case, it would have gone to blows eventually.
 
If you're interested in history, trace the recent history of the Confederate flag, when it saw a huge resurgence in popularity across the former Confederacy. Find out what year it was first raised on the State Capitol in SC. For some strange reason, it coincided with Southern opposition to integration and civil rights for blacks.

Were it not for that history, MAYBE the case could be made that it's all about history and southern pride and all that , but the fact is that flag became popular when states were defending Jim Crow and Federal attempts to roll back institutionalized, state sanctioned white supremacy.

My problem with that is you are imposing your views on how southerns perceive the flag.

You don't get to tell them what it means to them.
 
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