View Poll Results: Should the flag be moved-removed from all State Buildings?

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  • Moved

    5 7.14%
  • Removed

    46 65.71%
  • Stay where it is

    15 21.43%
  • Not sure

    4 5.71%
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Thread: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

  1. #81
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Come on, tariffs had been much higher than when the Civil War was declared. There was constant bickering, but there is no way anyone can claim tariffs were a major cause of the war. Read the declarations - they tell you the reason. Slavery.
    yes tariffs were a major reason.

    you had slave labor and low import and export prices driving the southern economy.there were two pillars of their economic force.they had already used excessive tariffs that almost entirely affected the south and crippled its economy.now add in slavery,the other economic pillar,like i said slavery issue was the final straw with them,the north did not rely on slavery,they used child labor instead because they did not want uneducated black men operating high dollar machinery.the north did very little trade outside the us,while the south was entirely dependant on it,and dependant on low prices of cotton due to bulk production.


    fyi south carolina did threaten to secceede during the nullification crisis almost 2 decades before the civil war due to tariffs,hence where the states rights issues came to play,with states believing they should be able to nullify unfair tariffs that blatantly hit the south and favored the north.
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    I was born and raised in the South. I love the South, Southern Culture, and Southern Food. I think we have the best accents, best food, best authors and some of the prettiest countryside. My family has lived in the South for hundreds of years and I have ancestors that fought for the Confederacy, even one with a memorial for him in Tennessee.

    That all said. The South seceded from the Union to preserve the institution of Slavery. Ultimately, the South and everyone that fought for the Confederacy, fought to preserve one of the most evil institutions man has ever conceived of. The fact we would want to fly the battle flag of the Confederacy anywhere is shameful. In fact, I don't even think there should be memorials to anyone that fought for the Confederacy. How is it any different than fighting for Nazi Germany or fighting for Pol Pot? Did every Nazi soldier fight for the cause of the genocide of Jews? No they didn't, but regardless they fought for an evil cause and thus we don't memorialize them or their flags. Similarly, ever Confederate soldier did not specifically fight for slavery, but they fought for an evil cause just the same and we ought not memorialize them or their flags.

    Ask yourself this. If a state fought the Union because that state wanted to preserve legalized child molestation would you be in favor of that state flying its flag that represented that as a memorial? So why is this any different? It isn't as morally, slavery is every bit as evil as rape, child molestation, and genocide.
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Yes!

    "We're all individuals - we're all different"

    Or, as I'm fond of saying: THINK!

    (and let's not let the politicians & their political parties define us OR our fellow Americans)
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Remove it, that time and that flag should have been gone a long ways back.


    Its going to be a done deal.....S Carolina will give it up. Take down the Flag. Next will be any monuments dedicated to the Confederates, Right?


    Senators Tim Scott, Lindsey Graham and RNC Chairman Reince Preibus have also called for its removal.....snip~

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    yes tariffs were a major reason.

    you had slave labor and low import and export prices driving the southern economy.there were two pillars of their economic force.they had already used excessive tariffs that almost entirely affected the south and crippled its economy.now add in slavery,the other economic pillar,like i said slavery issue was the final straw with them,the north did not rely on slavery,they used child labor instead because they did not want uneducated black men operating high dollar machinery.the north did very little trade outside the us,while the south was entirely dependant on it,and dependant on low prices of cotton due to bulk production.


    fyi south carolina did threaten to secceede during the nullification crisis almost 2 decades before the civil war due to tariffs,hence where the states rights issues came to play,with states believing they should be able to nullify unfair tariffs that blatantly hit the south and favored the north.
    But tariffs at the time of secession were at relatively LOW levels. I edited my original post - read that and the attached article and we can discuss further if you want.

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The average southerner was a poor white man who owned no slaves. While govt's certainly went to war over economic issues, I have read many journals from the people who actually fought, and why they fought.

    I get the impression (though Im not southern) that much of the pride comes from this. To this day I still hear southerners proudly mention individual family members that fought in the war.
    what people fought for and what govts started the war for are 2 seperate things. i already know many southernors had different reasons.

    the govts of the south saw it as economic.the slaves grew picked and seperated cotton in bulk,while many non slaves were employed in shipping of products inspecting it etc,or through indirect means of service jobs.from there it was traded to other us states or across the see,europe was a major buyer,most notably england.
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    The "Stars & Bars" (Confederate) flag in question is not the South Carolina state flag.

    The "Stars & Bars" do not appear, in any way, on the SC State flag.

    The flag that is under debate here is a "Confederate" flag that hangs in front of the SC state building along with the State flag.
    The "Confederate Flag" is not the "Stars & Bars" flag

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_...tes_of_America


    "the Confederate Flag" and has become a widely recognized symbol of the American south.[31] It is also known as the rebel flag, Dixie flag, and Southern cross and is often incorrectly referred to as the "Stars and Bars" (the actual "Stars and Bars" is the first national flag, which used an entirely different design).

    The correct "Stars & Bars" flag is the first national flag of the Confederate States of America.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_...2.80.931863.29


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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But tariffs at the time of secession were at relatively LOW levels. I edited my original post - read that and the attached article and we can discuss further if you want.
    well i guess relatively low compared to the nullification crisis,when the govt rolled back tariffs to prevent a civil war.fyi up to the civil war,the south paid almost all taxes,as most of its income was from tariffs,which almost exclusevly affected the south,as they relied on import export trade for their economy.

    add to that most of the money collected from tariffs went to expanding northern industry.i would be on par today if lets say california decides on a new tax,the tax only affects socal,all the money goes to norcal infrastructure,leaving the cities own tax income to do everything.if something like that occured today,people would be pissed off too like they were then.
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    What's really sad about all this is that the shooting in SC had nothing to do with the confederate flag. But people with agenda's made it about that in order to try and further their agenda. Instead of...you know...actually addressing the actual real ****ing problem.
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    What's really sad about all this is that the shooting in SC had nothing to do with the confederate flag. But people with agenda's made it about that in order to try and further their agenda. Instead of...you know...actually addressing the actual real ****ing problem.
    Exactly, this is a feel-good band aid that does nothing. The epitome of symbolism over substance.

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