View Poll Results: Should the flag be moved-removed from all State Buildings?

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  • Moved

    5 7.14%
  • Removed

    46 65.71%
  • Stay where it is

    15 21.43%
  • Not sure

    4 5.71%
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Thread: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

  1. #351
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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Not to them! That is the point. It was never, is never, never gonna be ever the right of one group of people in a completely geographically different location to have the right to determine what goes on in another geographic area. That's the whole "self determination" thing. The United States was never intended to be a monolithic blob. It was a Union of sovereign states. United in defense and trade but sovereign to rule over themselves as they see fit. That was what the content of the Corwin Amendment read, that Lincoln signed. And because the abolition of slavery and Jim Crow is to be considered a good thing doesn't mean that unintended consequences which brought about severe repercussions didn't develop as a result of the way their abolition came about.
    The national government should not exist in any form if it cannot protect the rights outlined in the Constitution for ALL of its citizens. And the states were simply NOT "sovereign to rule over themselves as they see fit." They were bound by that Constitution, including the laws passed by Congress and upheld by the courts. That part just wasn't then and isn't now optional.

    Let me ask you, and I'm bordering on defending that which I'm not defending (the systematic oppression of blacks) but let me ask you, what was keeping blacks in the South in the 60's when all this was going on? Why not some grand migration north? There was some and that resulted in the ghettoization of blacks here in the north, not really an ideal situation either I'd say, but apparently a better one than that down South by comparison.
    I don't know and can't see how it's relevant. The answer to systemic, state sponsored oppression isn't to ask those oppressed to move, it's to end the f'ing oppression and defend the rights of all citizens, not those with the right skin color.

    I understand that, I think my position on this has been explained in the preceding entries of this post.
    OK, fair enough. I'm glad we've been able to keep this civil. No offense intended in case you read any of it that way.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    The fact that the removal of the flag remains such a big issue in SC--something the legislature is reluctant to vote on--instead of a quick no-brainer, proves that SC is still vehemently racist.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I think the decision should be South Carolinians'.
    Really? SO what if some outsider goes there and burns it down. Will SC arrest him/her and put it back up?

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The fact that the removal of the flag remains such a big issue in SC--something the legislature is reluctant to vote on--instead of a quick no-brainer, proves that SC is still vehemently racist.
    Nonsense.

    It just means that the people of South Carolina follow the rule of law.

    Do you contend that someone who follows the rule of law instead of flouting law in favor of a knee-jerk reaction is racists?
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Nonsense.

    It just means that the people of South Carolina follow the rule of law.
    And it means that SC is racist, since the pols in the legislature would vote tomorrow to remove it if they knew their constituents would be A-OK w/it.

    The only reason the SC legislature would stall for a long time is if they felt their constituents might object (and potentially vote them out).

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    SC could get major (but well-deserved) egg on its face.

    The fact that the SC legislature doesn't appear all too eager to schedule a quick vote to remove the confederate flag implies that voters in the pols' districts probably oppose it.

    What the rest of the country should do is pressure the SC legislature non-stop via mainstream media/social media bullying to vote on its removal.

    Then when the vote is taken, the SC legislature, pressured by their racist constituents, will oppose removal, and SC will become a national pariah overnight--all businesses will leave, tourism will be hit hard, athletes will choose not play for SC universities, . . .

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    SC could get major (but well-deserved) egg on its face.

    The fact that the SC legislature doesn't appear all too eager to schedule a quick vote to remove the confederate flag implies that voters in the pols' districts probably oppose it.

    What the rest of the country should do is pressure the SC legislature non-stop via mainstream media/social media bullying to vote on its removal.

    Then when the vote is taken, the SC legislature, pressured by their racist constituents, will oppose removal, and SC will become a national pariah overnight--all businesses will leave, tourism will be hit hard, athletes will choose not play for SC universities, . . .
    You have a fevered imagination.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    My analogy was spot on.
    Sure it is. The Southern states were annexed by the Confederacy, the Confederate army invaded forcibly Southern states that were annexed.



    Gimme a break. The US has become the biggest celebrator of rebellious losers around. We no longer value those who create and make jobs, instead, we degrade them and pander to those who would leech off the system.

    The Left has turned into the McCarthiests of the 21 Century.
    Pure unhinged rhetoric, a total jettisoning of reason while blasting off on out of bounds tangents.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    the South did not secede based on the fact that they wanted to keep slaves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I'll go ahead and repost this since it seems to have slipped past without understanding...

    Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.
    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    .....Your quotation comes from a VP of the Confederacy......
    Your quote comes from one very wealthy man. That man was not indicative of the common Southerner.
    We call this "moving the goal posts". You started with "The South" (re:The Confederacy) and moved the posts to "the common Southerner". Let us try to stick to the subject of if the maintaining of slavery was the prime objective of the Confederacy. Of this, there is no doubt, as I showed it was the "cornerstone" of the Confederate govt, and more broadly the cornerstone of the Antebellum economy.

    You might not realize it - but you're doing nothing but creating more racism by acting like an entire region was racist and owned slaves. Perhaps you want a race war - but I don't.
    The entire region was involved in maintaining a racist slave system, where Blacks were viewed as inferior, rationalizing the racism. We had a war against this racist slave system, the problem is that large numbers of the progeny of the losers have not accepted the errors of their ancestors. Mr Roof was trying to create your race war, he is a son of the South.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #360
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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post

    The entire region was involved in maintaining a racist slave system, where Blacks were viewed as inferior, rationalizing the racism. We had a war against this racist slave system, the problem is that large numbers of the progeny of the losers have not accepted the errors of their ancestors. Mr Roof was trying to create your race war, he is a son of the South.
    That might be the most errant description I've heard to date. The "entire region" was defending its homeland.
    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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