View Poll Results: Should the flag be moved-removed from all State Buildings?

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  • Moved

    5 7.14%
  • Removed

    46 65.71%
  • Stay where it is

    15 21.43%
  • Not sure

    4 5.71%
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Thread: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

  1. #341
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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Lincoln signed the Corwin Amendment allowing new territories and States to make up their minds on their own on the slavery issue.
    The amendment was prematurely called the thirteenth amendment. Corwin's amendment, as it was then called, was one of three attempts to resolve the secession crisis between Lincoln's election in November 1860 and the firing on Fort Sumter in April 1861. The Crittenden plan and the Washington Peace Convention were unacceptable to Republicans because they yielded too much to the slave interests and rejected the central plank of the Republican platform, which opposed the extension of slavery.

    In his inaugural address, Lincoln noted Congressional approval of the Corwin amendment and stated that he "had no objection to its being made express and irrevocable." This was not a departure from Lincoln's views on slavery at that time. Lincoln followed the Republican platform from the Chicago convention. He believed that the major problem between the North and South was the inability to reach agreement with respect to the expansion of slavery. Lincoln did not believe that he had the power to eliminate slavery where it already existed. However, Southerners feared that a Republican administration would take direct aim at the institution of slavery. By tacitly supporting Corwin's amendment, Lincoln hoped to convince the South that he would not move to abolish slavery and, at the minimum, keep the border states of Maryland, Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, and North Carolina from seceding.
    Abraham Lincoln and the Corwin Amendment

    (Also, Paradox Interactive video games>Public education, knew about the Corwin Amendment and a few other attempts to preserve the union (and reasons for them) due only to Victoria II)

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Actually, President Buchanan signed it since it was passed before Lincoln took office. FYI: Constitutional amendments do not require a Presidential signature to be sent to the states for ratification if they have received sufficient majorities in Congress.
    You're right, I forgot about that

    Lincoln said in its regard at his 1st inauguration address
    I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution—which amendment, however, I have not seen—has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service....holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. ” -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by coyotedelmar View Post
    ...

    Caught it, thanks.
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. ” -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    You're right, I forgot about that

    Lincoln said in its regard at his 1st inauguration address
    Yes, another attempt to save the Union, and steer the South away from folly.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #345
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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Then you understand that Lincoln signing the Corwin Amendment was OK with the continuation and expansion of slavery based on States self determination.
    He did what he could to avoid a Civil War.
    Then after it was rejected he did whatever was needed to keep the Union as 1.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corwin_Amendment

    On March 2, 1861, the United States Senate adopted it, with no changes, on a vote of 24 to 12.[13] Since proposed constitutional amendments require a two-thirds majority, 132 votes were required in the House and 24 in the Senate. The Senators and Representatives from the seven slave states that had already declared their secession from the Union did not vote on the Corwin Amendment.[14] The resolution called for the amendment to be submitted to the state legislatures and to be adopted "when ratified by three-fourths of said Legislatures".[15] Its supporters believed that the Corwin Amendment had a greater chance of success in the legislatures of the Southern states than would have been the case in state ratifying conventions, since state conventions were being conducted throughout the South at which votes to secede from the Union were successful—just as Congress was considering the Corwin Amendment.
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    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.
    William Tecumseh Sherman
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    No damn man kills me and lives.

    Nathan Bedford Forrest

    Nathan Bedford Forrest
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. ” -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    "No matter how much cats fight, there always seems to be plenty of kittens."

    -Abraham Lincoln.













    ;p

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    As I mentioned earlier in an post, not sure who i replied to, it was bound to happen and things like this do take time. Finally did. And you are amazed at the public / political reaction?
    Stores are also divesting themselves of any stock that has a Confederate Flag -symbol on it.
    About time.
    Oh...I'm not "amazed" by any of this.

    Even if the left denies it...every time this kind of thing happens...it's pretty much something that is very predictable.

    If a tragedy happens, the left...from the top on down to the useful idiot in the street...is going to raise a ruckus for any of their agenda items or for any way they think they can damage the right. This flag thing...race...gun control...conservative propaganda...you name it. It get's blown up.

    No, I'm not amazed. But I am disgusted that the left would stoop so low...over and over.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I'm saying that right and wrong is based on viewpoint as it regards the flag, its symbolism. Slavery is wrong. What has been done to black people is wrong, I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that your idea of what that flag represents isn't necessarily what they think it represents. The last thing you'll hear out of someone's mouth, a reputable mouth is that the Confederate Flag stands for White Supremacy. You just won't hear it.
    I do realize that's the case in 2015, which is why when someone asked if I thought that those who disagreed with me on this issue were racists, and my answer was no, assuming that would be ridiculous. But what is clear is that when it was first raised on the Capitol, it did represent white supremacy and a protest about being forced to treat their black citizens like the white citizens. It's just what happened.

    I'm not even saying that what you say I disagree with, that the flag is a personal affront, that it is offensive, that it is a provocation, and even a symbol of intimidation to blacks. If I were black I'd no doubt share those sentiments.
    And this is the key point. Blacks make up about 30% of SC and about 42% of Columbia, where the memorial and the flag are. If it's a provocation, etc. to 30% or more of the population, the state has no business flying that flag on state property. That's basically the whole story in a nutshell. All the rest of this discussion is about why it is RATIONAL for blacks to believe the flag is offensive, etc.

    But if you concede that it is, and then I can't imagine a decent human being voting to keep that divisive symbol flying on state house grounds.

    Me personally I find the flag to represent an ideal. I find it to represent freedom. Not some white power blacks serve us BS. No. Self determination. The self determination that those Southern states wanted back then were for a continuation of an abomination. Obviously I do not support, condone or perpetuate slavery or any State sponsored discrimination.
    I'm not going to address all of this post because it's late, but I do not have any problem or doubt that others share those or similar sentiments. But to me those sentiments aren't relevant given how blacks, 30% of the population, view it. I hate to bring in Hitler, but Jews are 3% of the U.S. population or so. It would unthinkable for anyone to ever suggest flying ANY variation of any symbol remotely associated with Nazi Germany on any flag on government property, and keep it there for 40 years. But we've got people defending a flag that differs in magnitude, obviously (there was never a mass slaughter of blacks) but not in kind than a Nazi symbol.

    Exactly which is why I separated the two to begin with. Prisons for offenders of what?
    For violating Jim Crow laws. Rosa Parks was arrested for it, and briefly jailed, but more to the point would be blacks unfairly charged, tried and imprisoned by all white judges, juries, LEOs for essentially any bogus charge they wanted to levy.
    I didn't separate racism and white supremacy I separated slavery and white supremacy. As did Lincoln. They did however square slavery with white people. The Irish Slave trade was huge. White slavery in this country actually predates black slavery.
    That was a misstatement - I meant slavery and white supremacy. I can't say it any better than Johnson, VP of the CSA:

    Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth
    There's much more at this link: “Corner Stone” Speech | Teaching American History

    It's a quite elegant defense of slavery resting on the premise and certain belief that blacks were created by God as inferior beings: "They [critics of slavery] were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal." If the Southerners didn't believe that, there is no possible way for those men to justify slavery in any form and talk about equality, freedom and all the rest for the white population. So slavery absolutely rested on the shoulders in a belief in inherent, unchanging white supremacy over blacks.

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