View Poll Results: Should the flag be moved-removed from all State Buildings?

Voters
70. You may not vote on this poll
  • Moved

    5 7.14%
  • Removed

    46 65.71%
  • Stay where it is

    15 21.43%
  • Not sure

    4 5.71%
Page 34 of 41 FirstFirst ... 243233343536 ... LastLast
Results 331 to 340 of 402

Thread: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

  1. #331
    Living in Gods country


    JANFU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    17,787

    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I'm saying that right and wrong is based on viewpoint as it regards the flag, its symbolism. Slavery is wrong. What has been done to black people is wrong, I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that your idea of what that flag represents isn't necessarily what they think it represents. The last thing you'll hear out of someone's mouth, a reputable mouth is that the Confederate Flag stands for White Supremacy. You just won't hear it.

    I'm not even saying that what you say I disagree with, that the flag is a personal affront, that it is offensive, that it is a provocation, and even a symbol of intimidation to blacks. If I were black I'd no doubt share those sentiments.

    Me personally I find the flag to represent an ideal. I find it to represent freedom. Not some white power blacks serve us BS. No. Self determination. The self determination that those Southern states wanted back then were for a continuation of an abomination. Obviously I do not support, condone or perpetuate slavery or any State sponsored discrimination.

    Now, you can laugh, scoff even at that but it is really no different then saying Old Glory or the Declaration of Independence represents the same thing on both sides of the issue. Slavery did occur under the Stars and Stripes long before it did the Stars and Bars. All men were said by Jefferson's pen to be created equal but that didn't necessarily apply to blacks, right? But reverence is given to the latter and not the former, why? Propaganda to be succinct. The Civil war wasn't about slavery until it became politically expedient to be about slavery.

    The Corwin Amendment passed and signed by Lincoln shows us that the original intent for war wasn't for slavery's abolition but for the preservation of the Union. This is important stuff that can't be discounted simply because it is too uncomfortable to reconcile oneself with.




    Exactly which is why I separated the two to begin with. Prisons for offenders of what?





    Until this post I was presenting an objective argument. My personal predilections have no bearing as I was presenting the argument from what a Southerners point of view might look like.

    If I were black I'd be just as angry with the Yankees as I would with the Southerners to tell you the truth.





    I didn't separate racism and white supremacy I separated slavery and white supremacy. As did Lincoln. They did however square slavery with white people. The Irish Slave trade was huge. White slavery in this country actually predates black slavery.


    -- to be continued
    The war was fought over slavery how else can you look at the Flag that represented these states?
    Why is such an offensive flag a hot button topic.
    People are trying to put lipstick on a pig. Well it still is a pig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

  2. #332
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,123

    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    The war was fought over slavery how else can you look at the Flag that represented these states?
    Why is such an offensive flag a hot button topic.
    People are trying to put lipstick on a pig. Well it still is a pig.
    Executive Mansion,
    Washington, August 22, 1862.

    Hon. Horace Greeley:
    Dear Sir.

    I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

    As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

    I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

    I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

    Yours,
    A. Lincoln.




    Since intention is what matters most in your argument.
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. ” -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

  3. #333
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,937

    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    George W Bush and his allies who pushed unitary executive theory disagree.
    They would be part of that "many". Unlike you, I didn't make it a partisan thing

  4. #334
    Living in Gods country


    JANFU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    17,787

    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Executive Mansion,
    Washington, August 22, 1862.

    Hon. Horace Greeley:
    Dear Sir.

    I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

    As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

    I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

    I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

    Yours,
    A. Lincoln.



    Since intention is what matters most in your argument.
    I understand that.
    Then you have the federal govt stopping expansion of slavery into the new territories and States.
    The South fought to preserve slavery.
    The Civil War, the planks shall we say had been laid in the decades prior to Lincolns election.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

  5. #335
    Sage
    Paperview's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    The Road Less Travelled
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:05 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,411

    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Executive Mansion,
    Washington, August 22, 1862.

    Hon. Horace Greeley:
    Dear Sir.

    I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

    As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

    I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

    I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

    Yours,
    A. Lincoln.




    Since intention is what matters most in your argument.
    And?

    It's very simple, the South went to war to preserve, protect and expand slavery.
    The North went to war to save the Union.

    It was only midway into the war, the North made it a war about abolishing slavery for good.

    Lincoln was very clear in his many speeches before, he knew Constitutionally, he could not end slavery - but he himself, and his GOP platform called for an end to expanding slavery in the territories and new states. The south never gave him a chance, and most states seceeded and had commenced hostilities before he ever stepped into office,

    ==========Here's something else on that quote:

    "At the time, Lincoln was closing in on an end to slavery. He’d met quietly with his Cabinet members and shared with them a draft of the Emancipation Proclamation. He needed to secure the support of the border states before taking action, and he knew the timing of emancipation would be vital. Lincoln was waiting for a Northern victory to set the stage for his announcement, but in the meantime, Greeley’s attack demanded a response.

    Horace Greeley's editorial appeared in the August 20 edition of the New York Tribune. Click on the image to see the full article. President Lincoln's response appeared in the August 25 edition of the Tribune. Click on the image to see the full article.
    Lincoln replied in an open letter to Greeley. In the letter, Lincoln emphasized his primary goal: “I would save the Union. … If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it. … What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union.” In this masterful message, Lincoln reaffirmed his support for abolition without apologizing for the pace of change, while also subtly preparing pro-slavery Union loyalists for the announcement to come."



    "I Would Save the Union"

    This is the full letter from Lincoln: Abraham Lincoln's Letter to Horace Greeley

  6. #336
    Sage
    Paperview's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    The Road Less Travelled
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:05 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,411

    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    "I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel."





    The Great Emancipator ...
    And with his pen and dedication, pushed for and signed the 13th Amendment (even though he was the only President to sign an Amendment - it's not required...)

    - ridding our country of it's horrid sin and birth defect for once and for all.

  7. #337
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,725
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    And?

    It's very simple, the South went to war to preserve, protect and expand slavery.
    The North went to war to save the Union.

    It was only midway into the war, the North made it a war about abolishing slavery for good.

    Lincoln was very clear in his many speeches before, he knew Constitutionally, he could not end slavery - but he himself, and his GOP platform called for an end to expanding slavery in the territories and new states. The south never gave him a chance, and most states seceeded and had commenced hostilities before he ever stepped into office,

    ==========Here's something else on that quote:

    "At the time, Lincoln was closing in on an end to slavery. He’d met quietly with his Cabinet members and shared with them a draft of the Emancipation Proclamation. He needed to secure the support of the border states before taking action, and he knew the timing of emancipation would be vital. Lincoln was waiting for a Northern victory to set the stage for his announcement, but in the meantime, Greeley’s attack demanded a response.

    Horace Greeley's editorial appeared in the August 20 edition of the New York Tribune. Click on the image to see the full article. President Lincoln's response appeared in the August 25 edition of the Tribune. Click on the image to see the full article.
    Lincoln replied in an open letter to Greeley. In the letter, Lincoln emphasized his primary goal: “I would save the Union. … If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it. … What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union.” In this masterful message, Lincoln reaffirmed his support for abolition without apologizing for the pace of change, while also subtly preparing pro-slavery Union loyalists for the announcement to come."



    "I Would Save the Union"

    This is the full letter from Lincoln: Abraham Lincoln's Letter to Horace Greeley
    A "like" is insufficient. Yours is a superior post.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  8. #338
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,123

    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    I understand that.
    Then you have the federal govt stopping expansion of slavery into the new territories and States.
    The South fought to preserve slavery.
    The Civil War, the planks shall we say had been laid in the decades prior to Lincolns election.
    Then you understand that Lincoln signing the Corwin Amendment was OK with the continuation and expansion of slavery based on States self determination.
    Last edited by ChezC3; 06-23-15 at 08:41 PM.
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. ” -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

  9. #339
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,123

    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    And?

    It's very simple, the South went to war to preserve, protect and expand slavery.
    The North went to war to save the Union.

    It was only midway into the war, the North made it a war about abolishing slavery for good.

    Lincoln was very clear in his many speeches before, he knew Constitutionally, he could not end slavery - but he himself, and his GOP platform called for an end to expanding slavery in the territories and new states. The south never gave him a chance, and most states seceeded and had commenced hostilities before he ever stepped into office
    Lincoln signed the Corwin Amendment allowing new territories and States to make up their minds on their own on the slavery issue.

    The South just got tired of Northern interference and said, "We're through with you".
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. ” -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

  10. #340
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,725
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Lincoln signed the Corwin Amendment allowing new territories and States to make up their minds on their own on the slavery issue.

    The South just got tired of Northern interference and said, "We're through with you".
    Actually, President Buchanan signed it since it was passed before Lincoln took office. FYI: Constitutional amendments do not require a Presidential signature to be sent to the states for ratification if they have received sufficient majorities in Congress.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

Page 34 of 41 FirstFirst ... 243233343536 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •