View Poll Results: Should the flag be moved-removed from all State Buildings?

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  • Moved

    5 7.14%
  • Removed

    46 65.71%
  • Stay where it is

    15 21.43%
  • Not sure

    4 5.71%
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Thread: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

  1. #21
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    The question is not what Lincoln was fighting for, the question is what was the Confederacy was fighting for, what the flag represents. The Confederacy was fighting to maintain their economic system, that was based on slavery. The flag represents that system, it represents a system based on slave labor.
    Of course it matters what Lincoln was fighting for - it was his war.

    The South was fighting to keep the union troops from burning and destroying everything in sight. They failed, but that doesn't mean they did not honor their states. Less than 5% of the people ever owned slaves of benefited from the slave trade. The vast, vast majority fought to survive. The union was ruthless in battle and in the Reconstruction that followed.
    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I am a South Carolinian. I was around during the first flag flap in the 90s, which was eventually ended by moving it to the War Memorial in 2000. The law doing so says this cannot be changed or modified without a 2/3rds majority of our State Congress agreeing.

    That.... is likely to take a while, if it happens at all. Some of you may not be aware how hard it is to get any Congress to muster a 2/3rds majority about ANYTHING.


    I'm ok with that. I don't believe we should react to the hysteria in haste. We should reflect, consider, discuss, debate at length... and then decide, and act with due deliberation, making it clear we are not acting as a result of the outside hysteria but of our own volition.

    I'm slightly disappointed that our Governor didn't wait a while before saying something like this... it makes her look like she is too subject to outside influence.


    Me personally.... I don't really care all that much. I thought the War Memorial was a good place for it. Ok now a lot of people think it shouldn't be right there at the edge of State House grounds, they think it shows approval of what only a few % of nuts and haters think it means. Ok fine. Move it to some other Confederate Memorial place in Columbia and leave it be. Or leave it where it is and tell all the outsiders howling over a piece of cloth to go play hide and go @#$ themselves.

    Doesn't really matter that much to me, I just don't want whatever is done, done under outside pressure.


    Best thing the SC Congress should do, is respond to Governor Haley with "We'll put it on next year's legislative agenda, and we'll get back to you. Meanwhile, we have far more important things to handle."


    Heya Goshin. BO said time to reflect. That means no time to waste. NBC.....Savannah Guthrie remember. Then CBS asking Haley to answer the call about racism in her state.

    Hillary needs helps with S Carolina in a General, huh?

  3. #23
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Not everyone was fighting for slavery,
    I did not say they were, you created a straw argument. The argument is what the Confederacy represented, what the flag represents. It represents a slave based economic system which the Confederacy fought to preserve.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds | MSNBC

    Agree with the Governor
    Disagree with the Governor
    Not sure
    I think it's a great decision.

  5. #25
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Goshin. BO said time to reflect. That means no time to waste. NBC.....Savannah Guthrie remember. Then CBS asking Haley to answer the call about racism in her state.

    Hillary needs helps with S Carolina in a General, huh?


    Pfffff. Hillary couldn't win SC in the general election if she personally handed each and every SC voter a check for fifty grand.

    The primary maybe.

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    Of course it matters what Lincoln was fighting for - it was his war.
    No, not in the context of removing the Confederate flag because of what it represents, your argument is a red herring.
    The South was fighting to keep the union troops from burning and destroying everything in sight.
    So now your argument is the Confederacy was fighting to stop the economic destruction of the Antebellum South.....guess what, you are getting warm....while ignoring that the South initiated the fighting..but that aside, you are getting on the right track.


    They failed, but that doesn't mean they did not honor their states. Less than 5% of the people ever owned slaves of benefited from the slave trade. The vast, vast majority fought to survive. The union was ruthless in battle and in the Reconstruction that followed.
    Pointless, you are avoiding what the Confederacy, and by extension....what the flag represents.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I did not say they were, you created a straw argument. The argument is what the Confederacy represented, what the flag represents. It represents a slave based economic system which the Confederacy fought to preserve.
    It represented different things to different people. Ive seen black people with confederate flags.

    I think at this point (150 years after the civil war) its more a southern cultural/pride thing.

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post

    Removing a flag doesn't remove history or culture.
    You're right, but it's basically trampling on the culture - saying, it's not worthy of notice or remembrance. This is happening too often and not just with the rebel flag. We have people advocating bans on the American flag because it makes some feel hurt and oppressed. Where do we stop?

    In our nation's capital is a statue of Thomas Jefferson, one of the greatest of our Founders. He owned slaves. Should we tear the statue down and remove Jefferson from our paper money?

    German Strafgesetzbuch § 86a outlaws the Swastika and numerous other objects of Nazi symbolism, but certainly nobody currently living in the developed world is unaware of Nazi history.
    That act only lent more negative power to the nazi symbol. And the sad thing about the swastika banning is that the symbol long predated Hitler. It was used by the Native American as a "well being" symbol and it also appeared throughout the ancient world. We lost all that when it was banned. And, we gained nothing. Now, it truly does represent only hate - it's picked up by supremicist groups and all who see it shudder.

    History not withstanding I think that there's a lot of value in removing a symbol which, while it might serve as a source of pride for some, is also a source of pain for many others.
    Symbols have only the meaning we give them. What we're seeing is a theft of history and culture.


    If you want Confederate history you can always get it from a book, or from some means other than jamming your thumb in the eye of the state's 30% African American population.
    This is what I mean exactly. Political correctness has raped history and rewritten it to suit its own agenda. You might call that a victory - but I think it's quite sad.
    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    You're right, but it's basically trampling on the culture - saying, it's not worthy of notice or remembrance. This is happening too often and not just with the rebel flag. We have people advocating bans on the American flag because it makes some feel hurt and oppressed. Where do we stop?

    In our nation's capital is a statue of Thomas Jefferson, one of the greatest of our Founders. He owned slaves. Should we tear the statue down and remove Jefferson from our paper money?



    That act only lent more negative power to the nazi symbol. And the sad thing about the swastika banning is that the symbol long predated Hitler. It was used by the Native American as a "well being" symbol and it also appeared throughout the ancient world. We lost all that when it was banned. And, we gained nothing. Now, it truly does represent only hate - it's picked up by supremicist groups and all who see it shudder.



    Symbols have only the meaning we give them. What we're seeing is a theft of history and culture.



    This is what I mean exactly. Political correctness has raped history and rewritten it to suit its own agenda. You might call that a victory - but I think it's quite sad.
    I agree, Im getting sick and tired of the Orwellian PC police telling everyone what they can't do.

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Not everyone was fighting for slavery, to many they fought to protect their homes and to defend against what was seen as federal govt intervention. There is more cultural significance than slavery in that flag, and I say that as someone who's family fought for the north.

    I don't have a dog in this fight-but if the citizens of that state want it, it should be allowed.
    At the time the Union had not yet started to abolish slavery in the south. The North and the South were arguing prior to the war over whether slavery should be allowed in new states. When Lincoln was elected many in the South figured he was against them and decided to secede. There was nothing to fight to protect against at that time. The North wasn't invading. There is nothing to really state that the Union would have attempted to abolish slavery if not for the failed rebellion. At some point I'm sure it would have happened, but probably not when it did. Every factor of the south seceding ties directly back to slavery. Slavery is what divided the North and South. The confederate flag represented slavery, and is a symbol of oppression even today.
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